Genesis lg format kiln

[Laurie Spray]

I have a genesis kiln that has the flat table with the depth and coils built into the lid. I was wondering if anyone else has this kiln and if you are having problems with rust falling as you close you lid to fire. It is coming from the space between the fiber and the wall and is progressivly getting worse and worse. I have loved this kiln and have fired it daily almost since the day it came around 2006..... But rust? I do not dry shelves in the kiln and do not fire pottery in it. Any suggestions? I have thought of shoving more fiber blanket into the space .....but that would be a patch rather than a fix. Has anyone replaced all of the fiber in one of these kilns?

[Laurie Spray]

Thanks for all the email responses............

What a fiasco this morning has been. The kiln went from "some" rust particles falling from the area between the lid steel and the fiber to a full on cascade....... The more I tried to contain it the more it cam out. It came out in 6" chunks!! (and tons of small particles) We ended up taking front wall of the fiber out of the kiln and getting all the rust out of that wall. Unbelievable..........no wonder they do not make this kiln anymore. Lucky for me I had a full roll of fiber in my studio that I have had for 15 years since the time when I used to build raku kilns. So.......interesting but disturbing as I know the other 3 walls are in the same condition.......
Hopefully I can get another few years out of it...........it has been my all time favorite until now!
anyone else have this kiln?

[Bert Weiss]

Get a welder to replace the rusted steel with 304 stainless.

[Bonnie Rubinstein]

Hi Laurie..

Yes! I have same kiln and same problems for years (and have been bummed out that long!). I carefully vacuum the rust in between the blanket and the lid all the time. I stuff more blanket in there. but the rust keeps on comin'. I have spoken w/ the maufacturer, and they sent me steel plates to weld onto the bottom ledge of the kiln lid. have not done this yet. But I do not think that would 'solve' the problem.

amazing that they built it this way., as it was poor design and a pricey kiln.

replacing this lid w/ stainless would be an incredible expense. but maybe 'wrap' steel around the rusting part..but this would make the lid uneven allowing heat to escape. hmm.

anyone else have ideas?

[Laurie Spray]

thanks Bonnie for the reply

I have solved this for the time being and back to firing daily with little rust....... I replaced the fiber on the worst 2 walls and the others are not "leaking" yet. At least now I know what to do. I really haves loved this kiln.... hopefully it will retire when I do and not before.

[Bonnie Rubinstein]

I also love the kiln. Luckily, the evil rust is mostly only on the front inside wall. But that is alot of rust and I have to VERY slowly lower the lid and watch it each time.

How are you getting the fiber to stay in place?

Did you scrape the rust over before placing the fiber?

I hope it works for you!

[Bert Weiss]

As a kiln designer, I pay close attention to how commercial kilns are designed, with an eye to why various features are included or excluded. The Genesis cuts a few corners for cost. First, it is blanket lined. I make my kilns lined with HD board, which is far more durable, but has an added cost factor. The other big deal to me is that the Genesis is a clamshell. This saves on superstructure. It is OK except for 2 factors. You can not get an even crash cool if you are doing a drop slump, and you do not have 360º easy access to eye contact with your eyes directly over the glass. These factors can be achieved with a bell style. I get why the commercial guys like the clam, because it is easier and cheaper to make. One design feature could have been added to help these issues, which would be an extension off the back where the hinges are placed. This would make it open with a gap at the back. If I were designing a clamshell, I would do it that way. One of my pet peeves is that kiln manufacturers seldom consider the user's needs. They look for the simplest cheapest way to make them.

I am most interested to learn more about the rust factor. I do not seem to encounter this on my personal bell which is over 20 years old. So I am wondering if this is a function of the clamshell design, or the way it is used. Bonnie, do you fire a lot of wet plaster? I started out doing a lot of this type of firing, but stopped it after a couple of years. In my mind, the best mitigation would be to replace the mild steel angle irons with 304 stainless steel. This would be a routine job for a welder. The 304 stainless is the most commonly available formula for stainless steel.

[Bonnie Rubinstein]

Hi Bert,

I do not fire clay in there..only glass. However, my studio is built in the lower level of an ol' dairy barn. We poured concrete floors, but they still sweat in summer. Pretty moist in there. I run a dehumidifier at times. But the rust got to it before I was doing this. The rust is on the whole inside of the front part of the lid. hard to get a tool or vauum in there without disturbing the blanket. What holds the blanket in place?

thanks.

[Bert Weiss]

Hi Bert,

I do not fire clay in there..only glass. However, my studio is built in the lower level of an ol' dairy barn. We poured concrete floors, but they still sweat in summer. Pretty moist in there. I run a dehumidifier at times. But the rust got to it before I was doing this. The rust is on the whole inside of the front part of the lid. hard to get a tool or vauum in there without disturbing the blanket. What holds the blanket in place?

thanks.

It's been a while since I looked in to a Genesis. There is probably an anchor of one sort or another. The anchor would be attached to metal on the outside and have a clip of some sort in the inside. I just looked at a picture online and it shows Insultwist Stainless steel anchors. Those square things in the inside, along with their studs, hold it together.

My question was about firing plaster investment. Plaster molds have a lot of water to lose, when they are fired.

[Laurie Spray]

The fiber is held with clips. It was not hard to remove them. When we did and removed the fiber blanket it was easy to scrape off any remaining rust. Some of it was sheets over 6"! The hard part was holding the new blanket in place. I am sure when they made these kilns they had the lid upside down to do this. Not wanting to take the kiln apart we did it in place with the lid open. It was quite a job. The worst part is handling the blanket. Do not handle this stuff with out a mask......
We do not fire plaster in this kiln to answer that question. We do occasionally dry the freshly kiln washed shelf but not very often. We do have moisture here in the winter as we get tons of rain but geez......that was a lot of rust. It is back to firing perfectly and all is well that ends well.

[Bonnie Rubinstein]

Hi Laurie,

how is your rust issue doing, and how did you resolve it?

the rust in my genesis is getting out of control..I tried to vacuum underneath the blanket, but the blanket did separate from the metal sides, and it is now falling aprt.. I need to get all the blanket out, scrape all the rust, and replace with new blanket, but HOW did you get the blanket to stay in place?? it wants to all away from the wall.

so, now I have to deal with falling rust and falling blanket. This is quite a diseaster.

thanks!

[Laurie Spray]

Bonnie
We removed the side blankets and the front wall. When you remove them notice how they are folded to fit without cutting them. The bottom edge is folded under to make itndouble thick with a nice curved solid edge. I was lucky that i had a large roll of blanket on hand from my pottery days. The clips are easy to use although it would have been easier with a third set of hands. You do not want the blanket to split or stretch. We left the back wall alone although I am sure there is a ton of rust under it. If it sprinkles out it never lands on the glass or the shelf.
Before putting in the new fiber we did scape and vacumn well. S far so good.
We never fire pottery in this kiln or any plaster. I am so relieved that this fix it worked. If your kiln is the same age as mine, which I suspect by the rust, the next thing you will need to do is the relays, controller, and the contactors. If I knew then what I know now i would have bought them all at once......because of the way it happened for us our kiln was down for almost 3 weeks which really dented my production and added alot of stress.
I love hearing my genesis clicking away......back to working perfectly.
We have 6 kilns and this has always been my favorite.
Hope this helps!

[Bonnie Rubinstein]

Thanks so much, Laurie.

I guess I am concerned that after all the work, and the metal is now raw under the blanket, what is to prevent the rust from happening again?

[Laurie Spray]

It may......but mine took over 6 years........i am not going to worry about that!

[Bert Weiss]

I don't know what they used for metal that is rusting. You should be able to remove the folded fiber blanket and then replace the steel that is rusting. If it is sheet metal, just use galvanized, it does not see enough heat for problems to occur from the zinc. If it is the structure that is rusting, I would cut it out and replace with stainless.

I don't know why you would have to replace the blanket? You should be able to vacuum out the rust and reuse it, unless it is really beat up, at which point replacing it makes perfect sense.

[Laurie Spray]

You are such a handy guy Bert that I am sure you would replace the steel.....not me nor do i know anyone in this area that would do it without a large cost. The new blanket was handy and stiffer that the old....so i just went for it. At this point in my glass career i do not want to put alot of $ out but use what I have on hand. Works great now so i am more than happy! By the way, it is the flat walls that are rusting. They also no longer make this kiln.......wonder why....ha!

[Bert Weiss]

The Genesis was designed by Marty Daly and built by L&L. I suppose after Marty retired, nobody kept the marketing up.

When I design a kiln, the steel panel on the outside skin simply floats inside the frame. If you try and attach it, it would buckle as it expands. I have seen the Genesis, but it was several years ago. I remember the inside better than the outside. If I had designed it, by the time you took the blanket out, the steel would have just come loose. You gave it some good new life with the blanket replacement, but I fear that the rust will find it's way to the surface, sooner or later. I would just go to the neighborhood sheet metal guy and get some galvanized sheet metal cut to the same size as the old piece. You might have to drill some holes in it to get around the attachment studs.

Did they use expanded metal (the diamond pattern steel sheet)? That does not come galvanized that I ever saw. I prefer a solid skin, myself.

[Terry Gallentine]

I wonder if you could try placing a layer of stainless steel foil against the metal wall and reinstall the blanket over that. The ss foil is available through metal casting suppliers I believe. It might not stop the rust but it should at least contain it and keep it from falling on your work.

[Bonnie Rubinstein]

good morning all,

we are about to embark on this task..took the front wall layer of blanket out (it was hanging down, anyway, at this point!)..and there was so much rust, thick nasty sheets of it! The blanket I was able to buy is 1" thick, so we will double layer it. I will have to cover the rest of the interior- (blanket and elements) in plastic, as the metal rust dust will get everywhere, and we are just repairing that one wall..although I now see all the rust under the side walls, too. I just want to tackle this one first. I miss using my kiln!

Terry, I will check out the ss sheet idea..do you have any I could look at at your studio?

Thanks!
Bonnie

[Bert Weiss]

I would try painting some sort of rust arresting paint. Remove as much rust as you can first. If you are layering up the 1" blanket, be sure to alternate the seams.