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flat lap questions
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:29 am
by Paul Tarlow
Where to buy?
What to look for?
In the words of Hans Schultz,
"I know nothing..."
Re: flat lap questions
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:12 am
by Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
Paul Tarlow wrote:Where to buy?
What to look for?
In the words of Hans Schultz,
"I know nothing..."
What size ??
His glass has a plan of one U build ur self
U can also buy second hand ones
Brian
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:34 am
by Mark Hughes
Try SW Diamond Products, 1-800 825-2792 , PO Box 116, Gorman, Ca 93243 . They were at Glass Craft Expo last year.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:05 am
by Tony Serviente
I am a fan of SW. I have his 24" magnetic lap, going on 13 years old. Only maintenance has been a new belt for $8.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:20 pm
by Paul Tarlow
Thanks all for responding. I took a look at SW's site -- which only exposed additional ignorance on my part
I my primary use will be bowl edges. What grits are people using? Also, can someone enlighten me to the benefits of a plain vs grooved disk?
Mucho gracias
- Paul
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:40 pm
by Susan Moore
What is SW's website please. Mucho, mucho gracias!
Susan
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:46 pm
by charlie holden
In case Brian's post seemed a little cryptic, try:
http://www.hisglassworks.com
He sells all kinds of abrasives stuff, has lots of helpful advice online and gives great phone help.
ch
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:08 pm
by Tony Serviente
I didn't know he was still selling ungrooved. What happened to my first 24" pad, ungrooved, was after five years or so of daily use, it became a big, magnetic, diamond plated taco. I think the daily compression on the center third or so of the pad deformed it and caused the warp. The idea behind the grooves is similar to expansion joints in concrete, it allows a certain amount of expansion without affecting the integrity of the whole. The grooved pad is going strong with no tendency toward mexican food.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:22 pm
by Paul Tarlow
Susan Moore wrote:What is SW's website please. Mucho, mucho gracias!
Susan
http://swdiamond.freeyellow.com
Be warned -- they use a fee internet host that pops up all kinds of ads and more. It will probably asky you if you want to install this thing or that thing. Answer
NO every time. I can swear to it but I'd bet my house that some of it was spyware.
My bet is they've lost a lot more business based on the freeyellow (the host) junk than they've savded. Just imo.
- Paul
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:24 pm
by scooter riegelsperger
The primary reason of grooves or ripples in face of disc is to hold coolant.
They also provide for faster removal of stock. The finer the grit the less reason for grooves. If you're going to be just doing edges & bevels,I would reccomend no grooves. Crystalite is a good source for discs and grinders.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:32 pm
by Marty
Paul Tarlow wrote:Thanks all for responding. I took a look at SW's site -- which only exposed additional ignorance on my part :)
I my primary use will be bowl edges. What grits are people using? Also, can someone enlighten me to the benefits of a plain vs grooved disk?
Mucho gracias
- Paul
60, 140, 220, wet belt (220) on the edge, sandblast w/180 SiCa.
No grooves.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:40 pm
by Paul Tarlow
what's the life span of a good quality diamond disk
they are very spendy
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:53 pm
by Marty
I find BE to be really hard on the disks, but I'm removing a lot of material all the time. If you're just flattening the bottoms of things, especially clear batch or cullet blown stuff, you can expect years out of a plate. I buy a new 60 grit plate every 4 or 5 months.
If you need the technology for your work you've got to include its cost in the price.
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:24 pm
by Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
Paul Tarlow wrote:Thanks all for responding. I took a look at SW's site -- which only exposed additional ignorance on my part
I my primary use will be bowl edges. What grits are people using? Also, can someone enlighten me to the benefits of a plain vs grooved disk?
Mucho gracias
- Paul
U thinking of diomond or loose grit ??
Brian
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:53 pm
by Paul Tarlow
Brian and Jenny Blanthorn wrote:Paul Tarlow wrote:Thanks all for responding. I took a look at SW's site -- which only exposed additional ignorance on my part
I my primary use will be bowl edges. What grits are people using? Also, can someone enlighten me to the benefits of a plain vs grooved disk?
Mucho gracias
- Paul
U thinking of diomond or loose grit ??
Brian
I'd like to hear pros and cons of each -- never having heard either.
- Paul
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:37 am
by Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
Paul Tarlow wrote:Brian and Jenny Blanthorn wrote:Paul Tarlow wrote:Thanks all for responding. I took a look at SW's site -- which only exposed additional ignorance on my part
I my primary use will be bowl edges. What grits are people using? Also, can someone enlighten me to the benefits of a plain vs grooved disk?
Mucho gracias
- Paul
U thinking of diomond or loose grit ??
Brian
I use loose grit on 36 " wheel
60 + old stuff
Then strait on2 rociprolap
Brian
I'd like to hear pros and cons of each -- never having heard either.
- Paul
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:47 am
by Kevin Midgley
Bowl edges? Flat lap? Why not a belt sander? I would never use the SW machine I once had to do bowl edges, for the Bee belt sander was so much more forgiving. If you want flat bottoms on warped bowls or vases made of Baroque which has uneven thickness, then the lap is the way to go. Brian's system is essentially a table that shakes rattles and rolls for a period of time with the glass item to be flattened allowed to grind away a surface area. From my understanding of the lapidary processes Brian uses, I do not think he would or could use his system to do the edges on a bowl.
SW machines have a center water feed and you can use the entire surface of a disk. Some machines have a central lock down post which would cut the usable disk area in half since you would not want to hit the post! Some machines have a water feed tube which drips onto the grinding disk. The water is not in that system fed as directly to the surface of the disk as an SW machine and the water feed tube can get in the way when you are grinding. Some machines will operate not using diamond disks and water feed. Instead they use a slurry of water and carbide or diamond dripped onto a steel wheel. In that system if you are trying for a polish and contaminate a fine grit with a coarse grit you will have to start your polishing over.
The SW machine I had started to develop bearing problems. I recently enquired of Steve at SW via email as to the approximate cost etc. of replacing that area of a new machine I might buy but did not get a reply to that question. Mine was an older model and perhaps the squeeky bearing problems have been resolved with later versions. the SW design was good enough that the workers at Corning liked the machines. If I was to buy a lap I would probably go with an SW despite the failure to get an answer to my question.
I never got good at polishing on it for I did not like to spend the time and I did not know about the different types/grades of cerium oxide. Beware the fact I read somewhere about cerium often being trace contaminated with thorium??? Don't want to breathe it or eat it.
Final words for an SW lap user....hold onto your glass REALLY well and as you are standing there using the lap, ask yourself why you didn't make the area you are grinding, flat in the first place so that you wouldn't have to be standing there using the machine.
Kevin in Tofino with budding daffodils.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:17 am
by Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
Kevin Midgley wrote:Bowl edges? Flat lap? Why not a belt sander? I would never use the SW machine I once had to do bowl edges, for the Bee belt sander was so much more forgiving. If you want flat bottoms on warped bowls or vases made of Baroque which has uneven thickness, then the lap is the way to go. Brian's system is essentially a table that shakes rattles and rolls for a period of time with the glass item to be flattened allowed to grind away a surface area. From my understanding of the lapidary processes Brian uses, I do not think he would or could use his system to do the edges on a bowl.
SW machines have a center water feed and you can use the entire surface of a disk. Some machines have a central lock down post which would cut the usable disk area in half since you would not want to hit the post! Some machines have a water feed tube which drips onto the grinding disk. The water is not in that system fed as directly to the surface of the disk as an SW machine and the water feed tube can get in the way when you are grinding. Some machines will operate not using diamond disks and water feed. Instead they use a slurry of water and carbide or diamond dripped onto a steel wheel. In that system if you are trying for a polish and contaminate a fine grit with a coarse grit you will have to start your polishing over.
The SW machine I had started to develop bearing problems. I recently enquired of Steve at SW via email as to the approximate cost etc. of replacing that area of a new machine I might buy but did not get a reply to that question. Mine was an older model and perhaps the squeeky bearing problems have been resolved with later versions. the SW design was good enough that the workers at Corning liked the machines. If I was to buy a lap I would probably go with an SW despite the failure to get an answer to my question.
I never got good at polishing on it for I did not like to spend the time and I did not know about the different types/grades of cerium oxide. Beware the fact I read somewhere about cerium often being trace contaminated with thorium??? Don't want to breathe it or eat it.
Final words for an SW lap user....hold onto your glass REALLY well and as you are standing there using the lap, ask yourself why you didn't make the area you are grinding, flat in the first place so that you wouldn't have to be standing there using the machine.
Kevin in Tofino with budding daffodils.
I can do a flat edge on a bowl
If I wana do a rounded edge I would use linisher
Diomond goes a lot faster than grit
But using different pullies n magnetic diomond U could use either
I flat my flat bed off with car wheel hub
Brian
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:19 pm
by Paul Tarlow
Okay - still looking for a solution for bowl edges.
I looked at the flat lap plans on hisglassworks.com -- it is straight forward enough but I'm not sure where to get the 23.5" x 0.5" steel circle.
I'd also like to hear who has experience with one of these:
http://www.hisglassworks.com/pages/air658.html
and what your thoughts are.
Thanks,
Paul
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:23 am
by Ron Coleman
Just curious what type of bowl edges you're after Paul. I don't remember if you have a wbs of not?
If you're after an edge like this bowl you need the flat lap grinder. I call this one a flat grind, very time consuming if you polish it to a mirror finish. It takes more than an hour of hard work to get this type of edge.
If you're after the bevel ground edge like this one, only the wbs will do.
The bevel grind is quick and takes less than maybe 15 minutes.
Both ground rim types are somewhat more fragile than a plain fused rim.
Ron