MELTING temperature of frit

[Havi]

Hi All,
Does anybody know what is the melting temperature of BE frit 01 [the smallest]


I'd be grateful for this help, never thought I would need this info. but now it seems crucial. Please do not hesitate to write it in your temp. I'll convert it to mine.

Many thanks,

Havi

ps, If by any chance you know the melting temp. of the other BE frit - I'd be grateful for that too

[Buttercup]

Havi, you'll probably get a response from someone who knows what they're talking about...in this case that's not me but I thought many of the North Americans may already be in bed and you may need the info quickly so I did a quick internet search. Here's a thread from the BE forum which has a little bit of info.

http://www.bullseyeglass.com/forum/inde ... =14&t=3354

Did you check the BE site?

Hope that helps, Jen

[Sharol]

Hi Havi.

I believe Colour De Verre (the casting mould folks) suggest 680 cent. for tack fusing fine frit.

Sharol

[Havi]

Thanks,
Dana and Sharol.
I shall post on BE too.
The thing is that I want the frit to melt completely at the lowest temp. possible - so that it will not look grainy at all. It does not happen in 680 cent. unfortunately, not even at 690 [1274F] - where I was, as I wanted the frit to 'strike'. A friend here suggested 710 cent. i.e. 1310F

I did something I do not like at all, and I assume I might save it, with some corrections and different schedule.
OTOH, This glass went already thru so many firings, that I would love to be very careful. Even if it is experiment, etc. etc. - I put in it so much emotional energy, and so much thinking, that I would love to see it work.

I am now going to do the corrections necessary, it is evening here now, hopefully by night, when it is time to fire - I'll have the answer.

Many thanks to both of you, and to those who might chime in later.

Havi

[Havi]

Here is a bad photo of the bad staff I want to correct by re-firing

Havi

I want the red not to look grainy, but one flat surface, what is the temp. it should be fired in.



THANKSSSSS

[Sharol]

Havi,

If you want it flat, I don't think you would have a problem taking it all the way to 1325 (718). How long are you holding at top temp now?

Sharol

[Havi]

Thanks, Sharol
Do'nt know.... How long do you think I SHOULD hold it at this temp.?




Thanks,
Can't access the BE board... wrote to Ted Sawyer, but he is out of office - that's my luck

[Sharol]

I was curious about the holds you used in the prior firings to understand better what total heat work you had been getting up until now. Also, how thick is the whole piece?

[Havi]

Sharol,
I had 2 pieces in the kiln.
1. the big one, which had fired at least 4 times before, is 3 millimeter, with several layers of powder on it.
2. A smaller one, 3 millimeter, first firing , a layers of 1215 BE frit 01+08 equal quantities. It is also grainy.

I am sorry, I can't post the schedule in centigrade. Of course I had to consider the fact that the bigger one was fired so many times already -
100 - 538 - 0:05
333 - 690 - 0:30
skip - 482 - 1:25
55 - 427 - 0:02
99 - 371 - -
250 - 300 - -

end.

I'd love to hear your comments

Havi

PS
The powder melt completely, at this schedule - again, the problem is with the 01 frit.

[Sharol]

30 minutes is a good long soak, but I'd try increasing your heat to 718 to 730 cent. and holding for 15 minutes or so. Does your controller allow you to change temp and length of hold while firing? Will you be able to look into the kiln when it hits top temp? If so, have a look at the lower temp. to see what's going on and then increase the temp or hold time until you get it the way you want. I hope this works for you.

Sharol

[Havi]

Thanks , Sharol
After midnight here. I'll close everything and start the kiln, so that by 718 /720 I 'll be up, and able to see what is happening , and react accordingly

thanks a lot,
I'll report the results if they'd be of interest. I have a Jen Ken kiln, and an Orton controller. I can 'hold', can not change the temp. Unless I change the programme while the kiln is working.

thanks again,

Havi

[Brad Walker]

Havi,

What you're trying to do is really difficult. Mostly that's because you're trying to do contradictory things. First, you want to fire hot enough to strike the reds and purples. That's usually well over 1400F/760C. Second, you want to shine the piece up, rather than have it look grainy. That's also above 1400/760. But third, you only have slightly more than 3mm total of glass, which shouldn't be fired above around 1350F/730C. It's kind of like trying to fuse and slump at the same time -- really hard to do, at least with Bullseye glass.

What all this means is that if you fire hot enough to strike or lose the graininess, you'll cause the glass to distort. That's showing up in the closeup photo of blue, red, and purple frit, where it looks like the glass is pulling apart and causing spaces between each color. Note also in that photo that each of the 3 colors is shining to a different degree -- there's no single melting temperature for frit -- each color is different. That's another complication!

What I would do is step back and ask what I want the final appearance to be. Perhaps there's another way to get there.

A few other comments:

If you're firing below 1325F/720C, you usually don't have to worry about firing too many times. My wife Jody has pieces she has fired to a low temperature 40 or 50 times with no ill effects.

For only one layer of glass you don't need to anneal for over an hour. We usually just turn the kiln off and let it cool on its own, or hold for 30 minutes at most.

Have you ever considered using enamels instead of frit? It would be a lot easier to achieve the look you appear to be after.

[Havi]

Many Thanks, Brad

It is after 1 am here, and I am glad I waited for your response.
It is interesting, and a lesson for me.

I am trying to find my way.... learning what to do and what not do in the 'better pieces' I shall hopefully make in the future.

I am not sure the glass distorted, or I was not so exact in applying the powders, because of the stencils I am using. Had I fired more gradually, each stencil separately - it might have been more exact. This is a lesson too!

I shall program the kiln to work slower, so that I can control it, once I am up in the morning. Also the frit will warm more gradually, and hopefully will melt at 720 degrees. I'll program it to hold 30 minutes at 720 - and see what happens.

Thanks again for your response,
Good night,
Havi

[Havi]

Hi everybody,

Can't take photos yet, but the problem was solved by staying at 720 centigrade for 40 minutes. The controller was programmed to 20 minutes, but it did not seem to make the change I wanted, so I extended the time.

So I pipped, and I see that the frit melt totally.
Probably only tomorrow morning I'll be able to take it out of the kiln [your midnight , or even later]

Thanks
Sharol, Brad and Dana

I hope I'll be able to help some else, the way you helped me.

Havi

[Havi]

Brad,
I am trying to learn to work with pigments too, I am not yet familiar with them, or methods of working with them. I know that Udo Zembok works with powders and pigments.

I have some pigmens at home. I shall try using them. Do you know if reusche and. /or Thompson are compatible with BE? Do you carry them in your store?

By the way, basically I do not want the piece to shine , but I did not want the grainy look of the frit 01. I wo'nt be using them for that purpose again.

I'd be grateful if you, or anybody else posts a link of instructions how to operate with enamels


many thanks,
And Happy Easter ,

Havi

[Brad Walker]

Do you know if reusche and. /or Thompson are compatible with BE? Do you carry them in your store?

Both can be compatible. Thompson works best for sifting, not so great for painting. Reusche has a very broad line and can work well for painting, but most fire at lower than standard fusing temperatures.

I'd be grateful if you, or anybody else posts a link of instructions how to operate with enamels

I'm biased, but Jody's book has an excellent chapter on working with enamels (we use Sunshine Enamels from Ferro). We sell both the book and a pdf that has instructions on using enamels for fusing. http://www.warmglass.org/enamelguide

[Havi]

Thanks, Brad
I have Jody's book and I'll check there.

I might contact you in private for the enamels to buy.



Havi