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I have a couple of SS rings, that I hope to use as drop out rings. Question is, can I? or will their be expansion/contraction problems. Will the ring (18 ga.) warp, will I be able to get the glass out of the ring. Thanks Mike

Not sure exactly what you mean by "drop out". Typically a glass drop is accomplished by using a mullite or board doughnut that has a fair amount of surface area that you lay your glass onto. The board is supported by kiln furniture and the glass drops through the hole when heated. 18ga SS is not thick enough to support your glass for a drop through the ring itself. It is made for daming thick glass (> 1/4") so that it will not run when fired to fusing temps. As to it warping, it will move some but what you need to do is line the inside of the ring with fiber paper so that there is some room for expansion of the two materials indepeneantly of each other. As a safty precaution you may wish to wash the ring also.

Phil

Mike Boos wrote:I have a couple of SS rings, that I hope to use as drop out rings. Question is, can I? or will their be expansion/contraction problems. Will the ring (18 ga.) warp, will I be able to get the glass out of the ring. Thanks Mike

Yes Yes

simple stainless steel rings are difficult to use. They are not particularly stable shape wise. Glass will form around them, but can easily fold over making removal impossible with out cutting. SS shrinks more than glass so it can break glass that has been slumped through too far.

Like Phil says, board makes a simpler to use drop mold.

Thank you both. I though that might be the situation, and just wanted to make sure. Thanks again. Mike

I use stainless rings for drop outs all the time. Mine are rings cut out of flat stainless sheet with rims from 2" to 5" wide, (from interior of the ring to outside edge.) My largest has an interior opening of around 27" diameter and outside dimension of 36" diameter.

They are not bands of stainless that have been bent around into a circle with the ends welded together.

I have found that a wide rim works best so that there is plenty of room for the blank to sit on. I often cut the glass to overhang the outside of the ring so that it slumps down around the outside. This keeps the glass from slipping down into the inside of the ring during deep slumps. I have found that I can get a pretty even slump this way, even if the blank is cut sqare and only the corners of the saquare overhang the outside of the ring. I put a layer of 1/16" fiber paper on top of the steel to insulate the glass.

I have never had problems with the stainless shrinking in and pinching the glass. There is usually fiber paper between the steel and the glass anyway. I have not used these rings for verticle walled drop outs though, only bowl shapes. So there is usually some slope to the glass that will allow the steel to slip against it as they cool

ch.

Ditto Charlie-I use same kind of rings and they work well.

Charlie, Tony, thanks for the help. Mike

Have any of you tried firing a blank inside a stainless steel ring with just kiln wash on the ring? Is it best to always line it with fiber paper?

I was thinking about using a SS ring to do a pot melt into as a dam. Maybe it would be better to use a fiber board ring?

so many questions...

annah

Have any of you tried firing a blank inside a stainless steel ring with just kiln wash on the ring? Is it best to always line it with fiber paper?

I was thinking about using a SS ring to do a pot melt into as a dam. Maybe it would be better to use a fiber board ring?

so many questions...

annah

Annah James wrote:Have any of you tried firing a blank inside a stainless steel ring with just kiln wash on the ring? Is it best to always line it with fiber paper?

I was thinking about using a SS ring to do a pot melt into as a dam. Maybe it would be better to use a fiber board ring?

so many questions...

annah

Line it w/ fiber paper. When it cools the ring will contract differently than the glass and possibly (likely) crack it. The fiber paper acts as a buffer as well as a seperator in this case.

Annah, I use a stainless ring with an inner ring of fiber cloth (1/8') fill the ring with scrap glass and frits and full fire. Great way to use scrap glass. Is there really any such thing as "scrap" glass?
robertb

If the drop is not steep sided, as Charlie mentioned, the glass will be able to slide up a hair and not crack. I have done many drops with no paper and no problems, as long as I thouroughly washed the inside lip of the form.

Charlie and Tony

Do you have any warping issues with SS sheets? Do you put sides on it to strengthen it? How thick is the sheet you are using? How large can you go without big warping problems.

I am wondering about larger sink drop molds. The fiber boards always break with little provocation. SS would be nice but I've avoided it because of the warping factor. I'd love a 30" x 42" sheet with an oval drop hole.

Charlie-I did a sink with a 30" diameter using 16 guage stainless, and did not stiffen it on the sides. Propped it up on bricks, washed it down well, and it worked beautifully. I have not used that form enough to know if warping will be a short term problem, but my experience with flat stainless is that it will always warp, it's just a matter of how long it takes. I have inadvertantly accelerated warpage by putting a little item on a big stainless shelf, and exacerbated the heat differential. If I fill up the shelves and keep the heat as even as I can, they can last quite a while. Even when my fuse shelves get curly they still can be useful, as the slumpings that follow often fix it. I suspect that a large oval in stainless could do many dozens of sink slumps, easily justifying it's cost.

Tony Serviente wrote:Charlie-I did a sink with a 30" diameter using 16 guage stainless, and did not stiffen it on the sides. Propped it up on bricks, washed it down well, and it worked beautifully. I have not used that form enough to know if warping will be a short term problem, but my experience with flat stainless is that it will always warp, it's just a matter of how long it takes. I have inadvertantly accelerated warpage by putting a little item on a big stainless shelf, and exacerbated the heat differential. If I fill up the shelves and keep the heat as even as I can, they can last quite a while. Even when my fuse shelves get curly they still can be useful, as the slumpings that follow often fix it. I suspect that a large oval in stainless could do many dozens of sink slumps, easily justifying it's cost.

Tony

I was thnking of making a larger than I need slab with the hole placed where I could use it for multi profiles, but what I hear you saying is that it will work if you completely cover the steel with glass. Thanks for the heads up

Tony:

So now I am more confused. What I am thinking about doing is using the ss ring as dam to contain the glass from a pot melt. The sides would be straight up and down, and that would be the idea - to have 90 degree sides. Lots and lots of kiln wash?? I don't think fiber paper would work in this situation - it would just fall into the glass and get funky.

I could layer the scrap in the ring and fire, but it gives such a different look. I have been thinking about firing a pot melt into a ring, cleaning it up and using it as the center panel of a sink - re fire it on a larger piece. Anyone tried that?

I had some 4" squares made to fire tiles into - to get that nice crisp edge (and to make them thicker without spreading) I kilnwashed the molds, but did not fire them prior to putting glass in them. ALL of them stuck to the glass - I think at the corners where the welds were. I have another stack of them that I am pre-firing to see if all the 'shmootz' comes off first, then re-kilnwash, and try ONE.

Maybe it's the straight sides that are a problem?

Thanks!
annah

Tony:

why are my posts showing up twice??

aargh
annah

Annah James wrote:So now I am more confused. What I am thinking about doing is using the ss ring as dam to contain the glass from a pot melt. The sides would be straight up and down, and that would be the idea - to have 90 degree sides. Lots and lots of kiln wash?? I don't think fiber paper would work in this situation - it would just fall into the glass and get funky.

Just line the ss ring with fiber paper and then use a paper clip at the top of the paper in several places to hold it in place against the ring. Works like a charm.

Annah-Have the form made so the sides taper gently upward. I don't think the angle needs to be steep. If the sides of your form were an inch high, a difference of a quarter inch diameter should do it. If the walls don't taper, you run the risk of the glass getting stuck. Since you'll be going pretty high I suggest you line the form with paper. Another solution would be to have the form made as an untapered cylinder, but split it vertically, and have tabs welded to the outside of the split that would let you wire it tight. After the pot melt, you would cut the wire, and gently open the ring. It pays to make friends with good stainless fabricators!

Tony Serviente wrote:Charlie-I did a sink with a 30" diameter using 16 guage stainless, and did not stiffen it on the sides. Propped it up on bricks, washed it down well, and it worked beautifully. I have not used that form enough to know if warping will be a short term problem, but my experience with flat stainless is that it will always warp, it's just a matter of how long it takes. I have inadvertantly accelerated warpage by putting a little item on a big stainless shelf, and exacerbated the heat differential. If I fill up the shelves and keep the heat as even as I can, they can last quite a while. Even when my fuse shelves get curly they still can be useful, as the slumpings that follow often fix it. I suspect that a large oval in stainless could do many dozens of sink slumps, easily justifying it's cost.

My drop out rings are probably even thinner than 16 guage. I wouldn't be surprised if they are 20 or 22. They flex pretty easily but they still want to be flat when they are supported evenly. The flat glass blank helps keep them that way too. I mostly cut the rim off so I'm not worried that they stay perfectly flat. They don't extend out enough for a flat counter top. I don't take them above slumping temp so they have not warped.

ch