A general question about classes - WarmGlass.com

A general question about classes

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Amy on Salt Spring
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A general question about classes

Postby Amy on Salt Spring » Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:24 pm

I was browsing the classifieds and saw Barbara Bader's listing for a class taught by Jack Dopler that looks really good. I unfortunately cannot make that particular class however I have a general question about classes. The three techniques covered in this class are high temp fusing, coldworking and pattern bars. If I was taking the class I would be interested in the high temp work and coldworking but not in the pattern bars. Would I be able to learn and work in the areas I wanted or would I have to learn all about pattern bars in order not to disturb the class?
Just curious for the future.
Amy

PDXBarbara
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Postby PDXBarbara » Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:33 pm

hi Amy... My immediate reaction is that every class & instructor is different. In our case, for example (and I don't speak for Jack!), it probably could be done because the coldworking equipment is in a totally separate room... But it's hypothetical. etc. etc. etc.
Barbara
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Marty
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classes

Postby Marty » Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:23 pm

Having just taught a 3 day workshop I can tell you that it's a little disruptive to have students wander off. "Now I'm going to tell you how to whatever.... where's Amy?" It may also make it hard for the group to "bond" ("How come she's always off over there...?").

If you can arrange it with the intructor beforehand, fine.

Cheryl
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Postby Cheryl » Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:47 pm

I've been in the same position as you may be in -- re pattern bars in specific, I've probably had them covered in depth in 3 different workshops. I have to say, as impatient as I am, I've learned something every time - either from the instructor or from those around me. Same with frit wafers - which I've also gotten 3x, including from Famous Bob. So I'm learning (slowly!) to be more patient and stay with the class.

Cynthia

Postby Cynthia » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:23 pm

My experience as a fellow student in classes where another student has a different agenda than the groups is that it is highly disruptive and the group gets aggravated. Even though you try very hard to not disrupt the group and instructors, it seems inevitable that you will.

I think what it comes down to is that one person's agenda disrupts the groups when it is different and I don't see how to get around that. If you chose to take the class, you will probably be exposed to a new take on an old trick and your knowlege will still be expanded even if you don't intend to use that technique.

Getting a bit off topic here!!
I am telling this next story, not because I think you would do these things, but because your question made me think of this particular class experience, and after the fact, it's rather funny. It wasn't then.

I had a class experience a year ago where there was one student who came and went on her own schedule, banging on the door when she arrived, taking cell calls in the middle of demo's, slide shows, lectures...One of the instructors had to call her name several times before he got her attention to tell her to take her call elsewhere. Duh. She borrowed equipment, fired up kilns without permission or instructions on how to use (nearly ruining the shelf of a very nice little kiln...no separator on it), and decided to make frit with a hammer on a wooden desk top (ruining it) that was clearly not a glass working surface, helping herself to glass that wasn't part of the class materials, but the hosts personal inventory...It was wierd and wild. Now I know you aren't proposing being a big self absorbed disruptive force...I just think about this gal from time to time and still wonder what was she thinking? :shock:

You can imagine how the host felt. Under all the pressure and this particular woman's bad behavior, our host remained gracious and patient. I would have killed the woman. Go figure.

Amy on Salt Spring
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Postby Amy on Salt Spring » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:38 pm

LOL!!! No I really would NOT do any of those things and I think I would have strangled that woman myself! I would not ever want to disturb a class or lessen anyone's experience. The thing is I have never taken a single class so I didn't know exactly how it works. Thanks for letting me know. I promise if I ever do take a class and they cover pattern bars I will sit quietly and look attentive... :D
-Amy

Tim Lewis
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Postby Tim Lewis » Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:20 am

Amy, I have also had disruptive students (but not quite as bad as Cynthia's story) but one thing that you might consider: When I teach something that a particular student is not interested in it really shows. It is as if I am teaching something that doesn't count toward a larger glass knowledge base. You never know when you will need some of the information taught and, as always, someone might ask a question that gives you another bit of knowledge that comes in handy for a technique or a new idea. My theory is the more technical knowledge you have the less time and effort stand in the way of creativity.
Tim

Barb
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Speaking of disruptive students....

Postby Barb » Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:25 pm

Has anyone ever noticed that regardless of class size there's always one student that proves to be disruptive, irritating and/or rude? :roll:

Barb

Brock
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Postby Brock » Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:37 pm

I've been really biting my tongue here, (after all, we still have many classes to teach this year) but there is a curious dynamic in a class situation. It's almost as if some people lose their ability to think for themselves. People who lead otherwise normal, productive lives suddenly become helpless without constant supervision, which no
teacher has the time to give to each individual.

Child, adult, parent, student.

Cynthia's story, while accurate, was nowhere near as funny in real life, as others on this Board could attest.

I have worse anecdotes, but I have been threatened into silence.

Brock

Barb
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Postby Barb » Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:43 pm

Yeah Brock - remember I have pictures! :twisted:

Barb

Brock
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Postby Brock » Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:03 pm

Post them, dangerous one! Brock

Barbara Muth
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Postby Barbara Muth » Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:56 pm

Cynthia Oliver wrote:Getting a bit off topic here!!
I am telling this next story, not because I think you would do these things, but because your question made me think of this particular class experience, and after the fact, it's rather funny. It wasn't then.

I had a class experience a year ago where there was one student who came and went on her own schedule, banging on the door when she arrived, taking cell calls in the middle of demo's, slide shows, lectures...One of the instructors had to call her name several times before he got her attention to tell her to take her call elsewhere. Duh. She borrowed equipment, fired up kilns without permission or instructions on how to use (nearly ruining the shelf of a very nice little kiln...no separator on it), and decided to make frit with a hammer on a wooden desk top (ruining it) that was clearly not a glass working surface, helping herself to glass that wasn't part of the class materials, but the hosts personal inventory...It was wierd and wild. Now I know you aren't proposing being a big self absorbed disruptive force...I just think about this gal from time to time and still wonder what was she thinking? :shock:

You can imagine how the host felt. Under all the pressure and this particular woman's bad behavior, our host remained gracious and patient. I would have killed the woman. Go figure.


Ever laugh out loud in your cubicle? It's dangerous for me, I have this deep german belly laugh punctuated with the occasional snort....

Your story makes me think that some of the things we do in our training at the Red Cross would work well in a class like that. Like setting and posting norms agreed upon by all students. Some I can think of include not invading other peoples workspaces, not using others tools unless they are offered (Ron Coleman is the most generous tool sharer BTW), turning cell phones off, arriving on time, or not expecting things to be repeated when you are late, moving on to the next task in a timely fashion... etc, etc. Then the challenge becomes calling someone out when they can't conform. For all that I embrace non-conformity, there are situations where conforming is important.

I'd say the instructor and the host of that class were saints that day!

Barbara

p.s. barb, are those pictures from the class I was in with you?
Barbara
Check out the glass manufacturer's recommended firing schedules...
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Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
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Re: classes

Postby Brian and Jenny Blanthorn » Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:46 pm

Marty wrote:Having just taught a 3 day workshop I can tell you that it's a little disruptive to have students wander off. "Now I'm going to tell you how to whatever.... where's Amy?" It may also make it hard for the group to "bond" ("How come she's always off over there...?").

If you can arrange it with the intructor beforehand, fine.


Some years back I was at our UK workshops

We paid n turned up

But u had 2 put yr name down on the day so 2 speek

All the classes were full by the time I fought 2 get my name on the paper

So I became a floater

This was a lost sole who had no class

Left wandering in the class less wilderness

Lonely n uwanted

But I must say was the best ever workhops I have been 2

During the next workshops I did the same

Was realy good

But then I have reached a stage where there r lots of gaps in my knowledge

But having said that I have learnt and continue 2 do so, from the boards than I have ever done in the years when I was boardless

Floated Boy

:mrgreen:
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Rob Morey
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One teacher's point of view

Postby Rob Morey » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:52 pm

I have never taught a class in glass, though I’ve taken a few this last year. I have however taught many other types of aart classes to “adultâ€

Amy on Salt Spring
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Postby Amy on Salt Spring » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:57 pm

I've been told that my last reply came off badly so I pulled it and will rephrase it to better reflect my feelings. I'm glad that I asked the question so I could see from both the student and teacher point of view how classes work best. Having never taken one I didn't know if you could pick and choose from certain subjects covered or not--I certainly wasn't suggesting that I thought I should be allowed to go off and distrupt a class etc. In fact I asked the question so that I would know how it worked and NOT do any of those things. Nor was I commenting on anything about Jack--I hear only great things about him and hope that someday I can take a class from him.
-Amy

Rob Morey
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Postby Rob Morey » Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:29 pm

Amy,
I'm sorry if I came across like I was being harsh towards you. I read your last post and I understand that you would never want to be rude or disruptive in any situatioin. This is a pet peeve of mine and I just jumped up on my soapbox because there are others who read this that are rude and careless of others. I need to be more diplomatic next time. I hope that I did not offend you, that was never my intention.

Rob

Amy on Salt Spring
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Postby Amy on Salt Spring » Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:50 pm

Not even a tiny bit offended. If I'd had to teach people who behaved that way I would have been on a soapbox myself in a New York minute! :D Just wanted to be sure no one thought I would do any of those things! I didn't want to get blackballed off of someone's class list LOL.
-A


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