Playgounds / Paths Series ??

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KellyG
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Playgounds / Paths Series ??

Post by KellyG »

Ok, I'm putting this out here because I need your help. "Playgrounds" and "Paths" is a possible series I've been working on and I need feedback.

Last week I took "Playgrounds" to a shop in Baton Rouge that looks and sells funky things. The owner was interested in letting me consign and she's only charging a 25% markup. What I've found in my area is that people do not know nor understand warmglass work. They're used to seeing things in Hobby Lobby that go for much less than I can sell them for.

I'm pricing my items based on weight, # firings, did I use tile saw or cold working equipment. My prices average $100. I've placed a few items in a members guild gallery, but only two pieces have sold ($40/each).

I've spoken to interior decorators to get ideas about the market in this area. They said "unless it has a magnolia or pelican on it, it's a tough sell". They've all said they like my work, but what else would they say.

Before I invest in marketing money, I'd like to get honest feedback from those on this board. Am I going in the right direction design wise? I'm referring particularly to the beginning "Playgrounds" and possibly named "Paths" series.

Thanks. You guys are always so generous with your time and I appreciate any and all comments.

...Kelly

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/vie ... id=1403983
Ann Demko
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Post by Ann Demko »

Kelly, I love Inspiration and NoTime. Inspiration's pattern pleases my eye with the color and flow. Great cold working. No time has wonderful color and design. Harmony in the blance of your elements. Works for me. Ann
Jackie Beckman
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Post by Jackie Beckman »

Kelly, sometimes if I choose not to comment on a posted image it's because I feel the person still has a pretty long way to go design-wise before the suggestions I have will really help them advance their work. With your pieces, I feel like you are right there on the edge of putting out some fantastic pieces and with or without anyone's nudge from the board, you'll get there anyway. That said, I feel like a couple of easy comments/suggestions could push you over the hump to putting out some beautiful work very quickly. It's already quite good and I think you should be proud of it.

If the designer in your area wants magnolias and pelicans, let her get them from someone else, and you market your work where it will be appreciated. Don't change what you're doing to suit your local market, simply change your venues.

I think that the Playground series you want to develop has tons of potential. They are balanced without being symetrical, which I like; the viewers eye moves easily around the pieces and for the most part, you have made excellent color choices. (I may rethink the brown in Playground 2, but that's just me)

The single most important thing you can do to take these pieces to the next level is coldworking. I know you have access to the equipment and are good at it from looking at Paths and Inspiration. Edge these pieces on your WBS, play around with some of the pieces in the series having a matte finish, in fact, you may want some of them to have both matte and shiney surfaces combined. Any investment in time and equipment will easily pay for itself because once they are finished properly the designs are good enough to easily triple your prices - really. At least!

And that brings me to my next point: STOP selling your work for $40-$100!!!!! Stop it! I mean right now - repeat to yourself over and over - "I will never sell another piece for $40 ever again" (Go on - say it) You're cheating yourself, (most importantly) and you are also giving people the wrong impression about the value of kilnformed glass - at least quality kilnformed glass. You have a good eye for design - that may not seem valuable to you because you have it and may not understand that lots of people don't.

You know that Paths is gorgeous. You have to know that. If you don't, then maybe you don't have that great an eye after all! :wink: I would absolutely continue to explore pieces like this, reguardless if you intend to have them contain actual paths or not. (And - incidentally, if you happen to be selling this piece for $40 I'll take all you can make and will sell them for ten times that! Stop it!)

Inspiration is also very well done. I like the softness, the blending away of the hard edges most patternbars have - this is different and good. In my opinion, the purple "V" shape distracts from that softness somewhat. In this case, I think the piece would be more, with less. It stands on it's own well enough with the fuzzy texture that I think I'd like it better without the purple. Maybe if the color was closer to that of the rest of the bowl, I'd like the contrast of the different pattern bars in there, but I still don't think I'd like the "V" shape because the harshness of that particular shape doesn't seem to go well with this nice soft look you've got going on in the rest of the piece.

Side Steps - very nice. One suggestion: try one with the back frame around the patternbar section only - in other words, don't have the thin black frame extend into the red outter portion. I think you'll like that better.

I've rambled on long enough, but I really felt your work warrented it and I truly expect exciting things from you.

Best of luck-
Jackie
rosanna gusler
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Post by rosanna gusler »

i am learning so much from these critiques. thank you. critiquers and critiqueees. rosanna
Doug Round
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Post by Doug Round »

Kelly - I agree with Jackie. Let the designers find the magnolias and pelicans elsewhere. I live in Canada's great white north where everybody said that only pieces involving Polar Bears and Inukshuks would sell. While they sell quicker I like to do other things as well and it is appreciated (and sells) as well.

PS - an Inukshuk is a stone figure used by the Inuit to mark food caches or help in navigation out on the land.

Doug
A bad day diving or glass fusing is better than a good day at the office.
Andrew
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Respectfully disagree

Post by Andrew »

I respectfully disagree with Jackie on a couple of points. I'm not saying I'm right, but I am saying there is another way to approach things. It is fine to say you should chase your own muse and I agree that you need to follow our own instincts if you want to develop as an artist but . . .

Whenever a client tells me they want 'magnolias and pelicans' I ask how many? Why? Because I am glad to sell things that are uniquely designed and carefully made. When I bring the 'm&p's', I also bring finer work to showcase my design talents. Selling work and making some profit so I can continue to buy glass and supplies and continue my own development is absolutely necessary. Most of my profit at shows comes from jewelry which I neither enjoy or appreciate making. But people like it and are excited about it and it pays the bills. This is not selling out. This is what it means to survive as an artist.

I personnally thing that most kilnformed glass is way overpriced. It is worth what people will pay for it period. If they only pay $40, then that is its market value. Maybe not its production cost, or artistic value, but those are other concerns. Having said that, understand that someone may very well have paid 150 for that 40 piece - and I think there is some merit to establishing a perceived value for your work - but it doesn't often work that way. Sometimes a piece is only worth so much.

Andy
Jackie Beckman
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Post by Jackie Beckman »

I respect your point of view, Andrew, and am guessing by your location that you get lots of "Loon" requests! :lol:

I must argue though that just because the market for Kelly's work isn't huge in her location, then it just seems obvious to me that she should market it where there IS a demand for that particular type of art rather than change what she's doing. It's good work. Given the proper venue, she'll sell all she wants.

Maybe the reason she's only selling pieces priced at $40 is because the people buying these items in that area of the country are wishing for magnolias. If her work is more modern and daring and exciting and people are really searching for a more traditional look, then someone who enjoys making magnolias should sell them there, and she should sell her work in a market better suited for her. No?

Jackie
Barbara Muth
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Re: Respectfully disagree

Post by Barbara Muth »

Andrew wrote: Whenever a client tells me they want 'magnolias and pelicans' I ask how many? Why? Because I am glad to sell things that are uniquely designed and carefully made. When I bring the 'm&p's', I also bring finer work to showcase my design talents. Selling work and making some profit so I can continue to buy glass and supplies and continue my own development is absolutely necessary. Most of my profit at shows comes from jewelry which I neither enjoy or appreciate making. But people like it and are excited about it and it pays the bills. This is not selling out. This is what it means to survive as an artist.

I personnally thing that most kilnformed glass is way overpriced. It is worth what people will pay for it period. If they only pay $40, then that is its market value. Maybe not its production cost, or artistic value, but those are other concerns. Having said that, understand that someone may very well have paid 150 for that 40 piece - and I think there is some merit to establishing a perceived value for your work - but it doesn't often work that way. Sometimes a piece is only worth so much.

Andy
Andy, I for one, have decided not to make something just because it is what someone asks for. I do have the luxury of having a full time job, which allows me to make what I want to make. It is also a curse because it means that between my job, taking care of my mother-in-law's health problems and taking care of my husband's and my needs, I don't have much time to work with glass. So this year I decided I would only work on what I like doing and that I would look for the market afterwards. If I made all the things my gallery asked me for I would:
A have no time to develop the work I want to do and
B grow to hate this medium.

As to pieces being overpriced at $150 - I say not if the market will bear the price, and certainly not if the workmanship, the craft and design are fine. In that case $150 may be too low. The pricing of art is subjective.

Kelly, I fully agree with Jackie on this one. You are on your way to producing phenomenal work.

Barbara
Barbara
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Andrew
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Well Maybe but . . .

Post by Andrew »

Actually I've never gotten a loon request. I have gotten a request for a Vikings Helmet and a Green Bay Packers Helment . . . I refused both mostly because it required licensing the emblems but also because I REALLY didn't want to do it. I'll sell out for a price, but sometimes the price has to be pretty high.

My only thought is that you can spend a lifetime trying to find your market and we don't always have the luxury (time and resources) to do that. I want her to be able to keep doing what she is doing so she can continue to develop her skills and perceptions.

My thinking is that you sell work and get known. As you do that, you develop an audience and a reputation and people will come to see what is new. There is something to be said for bringing your audience along on a journey. I think there is also something to be said for taking the aesthetic constraints that market imposes, and using your imagination to give them something innovative and unique. It requires artistic discipline, but I know that I can always use that.

I have a friend who started off selling etchings at art shows at $15 and $25 framed. They sold and supported him and he continued to develop. They were beautiful etchings and we bought several of them. He developed quite a reputation as an artist, not just an engraver, and now sells pencil pen drawingsin the 50K to 75K range. Sometimes your audience just has to come along.
Jackie Beckman wrote:I respect your point of view, Andrew, and am guessing by your location that you get lots of "Loon" requests! :lol:

I must argue though that just because the market for Kelly's work isn't huge in her location, then it just seems obvious to me that she should market it where there IS a demand for that particular type of art rather than change what she's doing. It's good work. Given the proper venue, she'll sell all she wants.

Maybe the reason she's only selling pieces priced at $40 is because the people buying these items in that area of the country are wishing for magnolias. If her work is more modern and daring and exciting and people are really searching for a more traditional look, then someone who enjoys making magnolias should sell them there, and she should sell her work in a market better suited for her. No?

Jackie
Jackie Beckman
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Post by Jackie Beckman »

I have gotten a request for a Vikings Helmet and a Green Bay Packers Helment . . . I refused both mostly because it required licensing the emblems but also because I REALLY didn't want to do it. I'll sell out for a price, but sometimes the price has to be pretty high.


Well, of course you refused! My gosh - some people's taste! [-( Now - a Bear's helmet on the other hand - now we're talking fine art!
:wink:
Brock
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Post by Brock »

Jackie Beckman wrote:
I have gotten a request for a Vikings Helmet and a Green Bay Packers Helment . . . I refused both mostly because it required licensing the emblems but also because I REALLY didn't want to do it. I'll sell out for a price, but sometimes the price has to be pretty high.


Well, of course you refused! My gosh - some people's taste! [-( Now - a Bear's helmet on the other hand - now we're talking fine art!
:wink:
Only as a performance piece. Like a close-up of the dazed kicker, through the face bar, after being clobbered in a rush. Vince
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Amy on Salt Spring
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Post by Amy on Salt Spring »

<<He developed quite a reputation as an artist, not just an engraver, and now sells pencil pen drawingsin the 50K to 75K range. Sometimes your audience just has to come along.>>

Perhaps that would work but I know for me personally it didn't. When I started out about 3 or so years ago (yikes Bert that means I have four more to go--I can't wait!) I made smaller things--plates, platters etc. When after about 14 months I realized that I was unhappy and unfulfilled with my work, that it wasn't what I really wanted to do, I then switched to making medium to large sculptures. As a consequence I left every gallery and every buyer behind. The people that buy my work now would never have bought the small things and vice versa. I just had to take the plunge and the risk of making no money to do what I felt I had to do to express myself. I totally understand the need to support yourself--but I think that the risk of doing what you feel inspired to do pays off in the end. I personally am just no good at doing what sells--if my career depended on my making magnolias and pelican pieces, well my career would be over!

I agree with Jackie that you have to go and look for your market--one of the books I have read about marketing artwork says that one of the biggest mistakes people make is to never get beyond their local market.
Amy
Cindy next door
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Post by Cindy next door »

I think your playgrounds has the most potential. I am only in my first year of selling at galleries, so my advice might be helpful for you at this point.

I agree with Andrew that bread and butter money is good. I took the time to develop a product that was quick and easy but I enjoyed. It is not artistic, but the regular checks are good. I still enjoy making the pieces.

Secondly, I moved along in the pieces that have sold. Besides the sales, getting your name established is another thing to consider. I do enjoy the pieces that I make and look forward to evolving into other designs and continuing on with other ideas I have let sit.

In the little bit of gallery info I have gathered, I found that the bigger more expensive things sell well. I think it might have to do with the demographics of shoppers in galleries. This has made it fun to create pieces without cost in mind.

I think it's important to pick one area and refine it. Then here is where I think it's most difficult. You need to develop it, but also see if there is interest in your pieces from customers. I, like a lot of new fusers was all over the place. I focused on a couple of areas. Now, I'm incorporating the things that I learned into the style I do now.

I'm happy I chose to do work that I like because I didn't realize it takes so long to really get a piece done the way you want and when you're trying to get a number pieces ready for a gallery you don't have a lot of time to do other projects. I can't imagine spending my time doing something I really didn't care to do and wishing I was creating something else.

Hope that helps. :)
Cindy next door
Dave Pascoe
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Post by Dave Pascoe »

Hi Kelly,


I`m really impressed with your work. I think you`ve got some really good ideas. Keep going!!!!!

It`s funny, after the talk about inspiration latley, but one of your bowls, ` inspiration` is so similiar to some work I`m doing at the moment. I`m doing a lot of work with patterns at the moment, and I`m doing some herringbone designs. Of course, the two bowls look very different, but it just goes to show that people are having the same ideas all over the place.

Actually,you`ve inspired me to post some pics of my own. And I`ll certainly post my herringbone piece when it`s finished. It would be good to get your opinion!!!!!

It`s an interesting point being made about the `bead and butter ` work.
I set up shop and started out on the road to supporting myself from glass last year. I have owned my kiln for two years now. I have a line of work made with float and frit. It was quite interesting to start with, but latley, since I`ve started using b-eye glass, I find it incredibly boring.
But the thing is that it sells pretty well at some lower end gallerys, and I do quite a few `craft` markets where it sells well. Infact, you couldn`t sell the more expensive stuff at the markets.
So, although it`s not very stimulating, it pays the bills for now, and allows me to experiment with other things.
I`ve also been selling my more expensive pieces through better gallerys at good prices. I`ve been doing some tile and window jobs, aswell as private commissions. I`m hoping that soon I`ll be able to stop the Bread and Butter stuff completly, and concentrate on more interesting work.

I know several artists who don`t make a living from their art, even though they want to. I think it`s because they won`t compromise at all with their work. Surley it`s better to put up with the crap for a few years until you get a good reputation? Then you can really show people what you can do.

I agree that you have to go and get your market. Infact it`s possible to sell to several markets, studio, gallery,architectural etc.
Something that I`m really enjoying at the moment is working with other people in other mediums.I`m just about to start a job with a sculptor who works in cast stainless steel. He wants several pieces of glass to add to his sculpture.Very interesting work....

Anyway, I look forward to seeing more of your work kelly,

Dave.....
KellyG
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Well, I'm truly flatttered!

Post by KellyG »

I can't thank you guys enough, especially Jackie! I was getting SO discouraged and everyone's comments mean so much to me.

My husband is my rock and such a tremendous support (emotionally and financially). I asked him this past weekend if he thought the comments I was getting about my work was just lip service. He actually seemed to get upset and told me "No, absolutately not. Your work is beautiful." I love him dearly, but if I asked him if he thought my ass was too big, he'd say what any smart man would say. His comments made me warm, but your comments were rejuvenating. You guys would tell me if my ass was too big. Hey, no way am I'm asking you guys that question tho! I sorta know the answer to that one.

Ok, tomorrow, I'm packing up my things and heading for New Orleans. There are a couple of places there I've been scoping out. Wish me luck and again, thanks so much.

...Kelly
CharityAnn
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Post by CharityAnn »

Kelly,

I'm in no way an expert, and I think pretty much all the angles have been well covered. I just wanted to say that I think your work is great. Whimsical, kitchy (this is good) and full of personality.

Do NOT under sell yourself! Value your work, listen to your husband! :wink:

Best of luck in New Orleans, sell lots.

Charity :D
We are the music makers. We are the dreamers of dreams.
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

for my taste, i might like fewer elements. "Inspiration" is nicely made, and i can see you finished the top edge of that bowl. i like those soft colors, but maybe not the purple/mauve V area. overall, the piece reminds me of ethnic weaving. "Playgrounds" i think could lose a few things and benefit. i suggest you find a way to prop up your pieces so no stand shows -- a totally blank surrounding area looks better. as for pricing, it seems to me that should be based on appearance, and nothing else. if a small piece is the bomb, then it should command a suitable price, and there's no reason a big one should get more if it isn't better-looking/more interesting.

i can see you have a lot of great ideas going on -- nice of you to show the pictures. it's always interesting to hear what people are thinking about as they move forward with their work. i have no doubt you'll get there!
Kathie Karancz
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Post by Kathie Karancz »

Hey Kelly: LOVE IT \:D/ (especially the Playground series). You seem to have the same flare and lack of fear when it comes to using colours as Jackie B. has.
I also like your Lava plate. Could you please explain the process you used to get that affect???? Very cool 8) 8)
Good luck.....
Kathie Karancz
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Bruce Larion
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Post by Bruce Larion »

Kelly
I am very new yet to fusing so I am in awe of most folk's work on this site and therefor do not comment on others work, but I did want to express a particular liking of your "paths" piece. Not only do I like the piece but after reading the thread I believe you should pursue the series you were thinking about as I believe it ties back so well with where you are in your art and career path at this moment in life. I could see your "paths" series as an expression of many an aspiring fuser and for that matter anyone making choices of life directions.
Just my 2 cents worth. Great work and best of luck.
Bruce
KellyG
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Follow up - After New Orleans

Post by KellyG »

For those of you who are following this thread, I packed up some of my things and took them to the New Orleans School of Glassworks. I spent some time with Andy Brott. He was very generous with both his time and advice. He’s a born teacher.

What Andy said was that the glass market in the US is just flooded now. I sorta knew this, but it gets worse. He just returned from a trip to Asia where he taught extensive warmglass classes. I mentioned that I saw some warmglass things at Hobby Lobby. Well, we’re going to be seeing a lot more of this. The only artists who are going to survive this flood will need to be exceptionally good. There are many exceptional artists on this board who have no need to worry. I know I’m not one of them. I’m ok, better than some, but no where near where I’ll need to be to survive.

It wasn’t all doom and gloom for me though. At least he didn't tell me to "sell my kiln." :) He gave me some very good advice on a direction I should pursue along with some tips on improving the quality of my work. It’ll be exciting and will keep me doing what I love to do. Learning about and creating in glass.

I’m grateful that this board is here. You guys helped me out when I was getting very discouraged. Muchas Gracias Amigos.
…Kelly

Here's a link to Andy's site.

http://www.brottworks.com/consult.html?62,17
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