Kiln Shelf Paper

suzette B · Post by **suzette B** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:10 pm

Does anyone know of a direct supplier for large quantities of shelf Paper...as in Rolls? Thanks for any info you might have.

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:19 pm

Are you talking about Bullseye Thinfire or ceramic fiber paper?

suzette B · Post by **suzette B** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:22 pm

I've actually only used ceramic fiber paper, which is what I was thinking of. However, I am open to all suggestions. Thanks.

GlassOrchid · Post by **GlassOrchid** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:23 pm

I believe Ed Hoy sells rolls of the ceramic fiber paper..... in my travels online I've also seen a few companies that manufature the stuff so they are out there but I don't remember where they were....

~N

Stuart Clayman · Post by **Stuart Clayman** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:04 am

Ok, I have a question... I have used the Bullseye shelf paper and know that that comes in rolls. I have also used 1/8 inch fiber frax and I know that it also comes in rolls.. what is ceramic fiber paper?

Stuart

GlassOrchid · Post by **GlassOrchid** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:47 am

Well, maybe it's not called ceramic fiber paper but that's what I've always thought of it in my head.... don't even remember why that name is in there??

It's the same stuff you're thinking of though... Fiber shelf paper and Fiber Blanket. Fiber paper comes in Thin Fire (paper thin), 1/32" and 1/8" as far as I know. Fiber blanket comes in 1/2" & 1"... maybe wider...

Blanket comes in 25' rolls from Ed Hoy and Fiber Shelf Paper comes in 200' & 400' rolls.

I don't use thin fire but I do use blanket & shelf paper. I use them sparingly because they contain some nasty stuff (a form of silica). When I do use them I try not to move it around more than necessary to keep the fibers from becoming airborne.

~N

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:16 am

Ceramic fiber paper is manufactured by a number of companies inluding Unifrax, Thermal Ceramics and Lydall and is sold under the trade names Fiberfrax, Kaowool and Lytherm. Most can be purchased locally in small or large quantity from your local refractories dealer. These materials are commonly used to repair industrial furnaces and boilers. Look in your local yellow pages under refractories and give them a call. The better papers are clean with a low shot content (unfiberized glass particles) but they cost more.

Tony

suzette B · Post by **suzette B** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:18 am

The catalog description for shelf paper is as follows, "A pure grade of ceramic fiber paper which is ideally suited as a layer between the glass and the kiln shelf. Size: 24" X 24" X 1/32" thick. Leaves a smooth matte finish. Eliminates the need for shelf primer."

The thing I like about this paper is that you can fire on it 3-4 times if you are careful. It seems to be more durable than the Bullseye thinfire. (Perhaps someone has "re-use success tips" for the thinfire.)

Thanks for any info.

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:38 am

Do a search in the classified section for ceramic fiber. THere was someone selling bulk ceramic fiber there for about $0.80/sq ft which is a decent price for high quality ceramic fiber.

Tony

Jackie Beckman · Post by **Jackie Beckman** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:44 am

suzette B wrote:The catalog description for shelf paper is as follows, "A pure grade of ceramic fiber paper which is ideally suited as a layer between the glass and the kiln shelf. Size: 24" X 24" X 1/32" thick. Leaves a smooth matte finish. Eliminates the need for shelf primer."

The thing I like about this paper is that you can fire on it 3-4 times if you are careful. It seems to be more durable than the Bullseye thinfire. (Perhaps someone has "re-use success tips" for the thinfire.)

Thanks for any info.

You can get fiber paper on rolls from your local refractory. They should have 24" x 150' rolls (or 250' for the thinner kinds) in thicknesses ranging from 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, and I think I've heard of 1/4 also, although I've never used any that thick. It serves a different purpose than Thinfire, (Bullseye's product- not available at local refractories) which gives you a much smoother finish than other fiber papers. The thinfire can't be re-used, especially the new stuff. In my opinion, this is not an either/or decision - you need both. You can't dam up a piece with thin fire, and you can't hide seams between your shelves with it, but it's function is entirely different. Thinfire is used to get a smooth kiln-washed shelf sort of finish on your pieces without kilnwashing your shelves. I use both in my studio all the time for different purposes.

suzette B · Post by **suzette B** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:52 am

Thanks much for your response. The only problem is that we don't have a "local refractory" based on yellow page searches. I'll keep looking, though.

Jackie Beckman · Post by **Jackie Beckman** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:25 am

suzette B wrote:Thanks much for your response. The only problem is that we don't have a "local refractory" based on yellow page searches. I'll keep looking, though.

I don't know where you're located, but the nearest bigger city will have at least one.

GlassOrchid · Post by **GlassOrchid** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:49 am

So I wasn't crazy about the term Ceramic.... if you can't find a dealer locally use some of the names given in this thread plus the term Ceramic Fiber Paper and you should be able to find one online; I know I did at one time but just didn't save the URL.

Luck!
Nancy

PS: I don't use thinfire when I can help it because it turns into a fine powder after use and I don't like to have that in the studio. Kiln wash can be cleaned up by spraying it so it is wet and doesn't become airborne. Lots of folks DO use thin fire; it's just a personal choice..... I do reuse fiber paper but I take care not to move it around much. I use it to lay the 'other' end of the mandrels when I make pendants so the mandrel doesn't roll around and it keeps it level of the end in the pendant doesn't rise up..... I use it to prop up PMC pieces in the kiln too..... I don't like the texture fiber paper gives to the bottom of glass so I don't use it in place of kiln wash. Kiln wash is easy to use and, if you take proper measures, is safe and better as a shelf surface than anything else. IMO. Fiber paper has good uses too..... but different....

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:07 am

Suzette

You don't give enough info for us to be helpful. Which section of the planet are you shopping in???

There are 2 manufacturers of fiber papers that I know of, Unifrax and Lydall. I have always used Unifrax 970 papers, but I understand that Lydall papers could be a better choice. They have some with higher purity levels, which should result in less sticking. I generally use 1/32" paper and stack it if I want thicker. It comes in 24" and 48" wide rolls.

Both companies have distributors all over. You have to find them in your location. If the yellow pages didn't do it, try the internet.

Stuart Clayman · Post by **Stuart Clayman** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:41 am

I also got some of the fiberfrax paper at a ceramic supplier. He just cut if off a roll for me.

Vickie · Post by **Vickie** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:11 pm

I use the 1/32 paper ONLY,,it does the best job. You have to really peel it off carefully in order to use it again. But i use a rolling pin to make it nice and smooth. i can usually get 3 uses out of it. I tried BE thin paper, and got HUGE bubbles in my glass, so i won't use it again. Hope this helps
Vickie

L.A. Clark · Post by **L.A. Clark** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:10 pm

If you still need rolls, I have several rolls of Lydall, 24" - 1/8", and some 12"
1/32". I have these priced at cost.
Lois Clark - Clark Art Glass & Refractories
c1drafly1@cs.com or PH: 276-466-8410 Eastern Standard Time

Jon Myers · Post by **Jon Myers** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:54 am

http://www.uu77.com/thermalinsulation/

They sell fiber products, their blanket is average, I haven't tried the fiber paper.

WarmGlass.com

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