Tips for firing mult-shelves?

[PDXBarbara]

I'm using a Skutt ceramic side-fired kiln --WITH Envirovent-- to fire students' (grades 4 - 8 ) work. It's deep-ish... in other words I can't reach the bottom although I'm all of 5 ft tall.

Example of problem: I used a basic schedule to tack fuse 3 shelves of tiles. Tiles are single layer with varying amounts of decoration on top. (I don't have the records at home, but I think I held it at 1350 for like 10-15 minutes).

Results: Many of the decorative elements barely stuck... some fell off at a touch. None rounded at all.

Advice, please? How to think through my schedules -- in general -- given that I'm used to my single-layered, top/side fired Skutt coffin, with NO envirovent.

I'm re-fusing these tiles today.... going up to 1400 with a longer soak. The tack fuse must be solid, because the kids will be cutting/breaking them to re-use as parts for other designs. (That's why they're only 1 layer plus decoration.)

Thanks, as always.

PDXBarbara

[Brian and Jenny Blanthorn]

I'm using a Skutt ceramic side-fired kiln --WITH Envirovent-- to fire students' (grades 4 - 8 ) work. It's deep-ish... in other words I can't reach the bottom although I'm all of 5 ft tall.

Example of problem: I used a basic schedule to tack fuse 3 shelves of tiles. Tiles are single layer with varying amounts of decoration on top. (I don't have the records at home, but I think I held it at 1350 for like 10-15 minutes).

Results: Many of the decorative elements barely stuck... some fell off at a touch. None rounded at all.

Advice, please? How to think through my schedules -- in general -- given that I'm used to my single-layered, top/side fired Skutt coffin, with NO envirovent.

I'm re-fusing these tiles today.... going up to 1400 with a longer soak. The tack fuse must be solid, because the kids will be cutting/breaking them to re-use as parts for other designs. (That's why they're only 1 layer plus decoration.)

Thanks, as always.

PDXBarbara

The only solution is constansistancy

Ie only make little changes n repeate each time 4 each type of fire

Realy U ask a lot 2 achive evenivity doing multy shelf firings

Here is a few ideas

When fire put small stacks of glass on shelves number these with enamel paint

Keep these

Ajust temp

If cold increase shelf spacing if hot reduce

Also U will tend 2 get side hot spots use small peices of sawn up shelves 2 protect

An empty top shelf will help U achive Evenivity Nearvana

Also a slow climb up then off when done is probabbly better than soak or do both

I am still learning Evenivity

I hope one day 2 improve

Brian

[rosanna gusler]

i like to hold for about 20 at 1100+-. that gets the heat even in the kiln. try to keep shelves at least 4" apart. keep the bottom shelf above the bottom layer of elements. remembet that it takes all that mass a while to come up to the temp of the air which is what the thermocouple is reading. controller or manual? rosanna

[PDXBarbara]

Thanks Brian & Rosanna.... you guys are true pals.... I'll be loading & programming this kiln in an hour or so!

Thanks Brian... tho I don't have the leisure to do eveninity & constansistancy tests, I will go for the slow ramp up & apply your Philosopy O' Shelves (is that TM?).

Does the enviro-vent affect things much? How about using staggered half-shelves (more of a loading hassle, of course...). I figured the constant vent would induce eveninity... no?

Thanks Rosanna... it's a Skutt controller.... no problemo there. What's your opinion about the impact of the Envir-vent?

xxoo
Barbara

[rosanna gusler]

i think that the envriovent helps evenivity. i have fired 3 different skutt kilns (exact same size)with and without and it helps even things out to have one. you can have annealing issues on large/thick pieces within say 4 inches of the top. i think it also helps prevent devit. i usually have all manner of organics and metals in my loads. the envriovent definatly helps with that. also if the kiln has the vent motor mounted directly on the bottom of the kiln you can damage the motor by firing the kiln with it off. i am not sure if our temps are high enough but there is some cut off i remember from reading the manual several years ago. rosanna

[Brian and Jenny Blanthorn]

Thanks Brian & Rosanna.... you guys are true pals.... I'll be loading & programming this kiln in an hour or so!

Thanks Brian... tho I don't have the leisure to do eveninity & constansistancy tests, I will go for the slow ramp up & apply your Philosopy O' Shelves (is that TM?).

Does the enviro-vent affect things much? How about using staggered half-shelves (more of a loading hassle, of course...). I figured the constant vent would induce eveninity... no?

Thanks Rosanna... it's a Skutt controller.... no problemo there. What's your opinion about the impact of the Envir-vent?

xxoo
Barbara

Enviro vent ?????????????

If a fun then will help

But if actual vent at fuze temps I cant C it working

I have not researched

1/2 Shelf Evenivity

Currently all availabble staff R working on

Riches tm

So got no one free 2 check it out

My guess is 1/2 is not gona realy help

As U want heat in the center not wafting up through a gap

But give it a go

In brief we use a smaller gap as we go up 2 the top

Brian

[rosanna gusler]

hi brian, envirovent tm is a fan that sucks a regulated amount of air into the kiln through 3 small holes in the top and out 3 small holes in the bottom. and then out of the room via drier vent hose. it is on throughout the whole firing. sometimes i cut mine off while annealing if i think i have stuff too close to the top. rosanna

[PDXBarbara]

Hi Brian & Rosanna...

I'd love the opportunity to do a bunch o' tests, but alas...NOT.
This kiln is in the school, with lotsa competition for time. The enviro-vent is required by the school & goes on automatically. My guess is that it would help eveninity, even if it takes more time to run thru. Also, I fuse the projects of the whole class in 1 firing... that's 15 - 16 projects. All different due to the will of the individual student mind... (ie the amount of glass piled on & the degree to which a student pays attention to the super-brilliant-experienced-allknowledgeable&allseeingfusinggenius teacher.)

When I loaded 'er up yesterday, I reduced the gap between shelves toward the top. Don't know why... just my incredible, never-fail fusing instincts, eh?

Brian... love to share in your RichesTM.... Prefer diamonds to Euros, if it's convenient for you. In fact, to further enhance the convenience factor, I could even stop by the Isle O' Wight & pick up my RichesTM. Just tell me how big my RichesSack(TM) must be to fit my RichesTM?

xxoo,
PDXBarbara

[rosanna gusler]

well, remember to tell us how they came out. rosanna

[PDXBarbara]

well, remember to tell us how they came out. rosanna

I will... I'm pretty curious myself...
BB

[Brian and Jenny Blanthorn]

Hi Brian & Rosanna...

I'd love the opportunity to do a bunch o' tests, but alas...NOT.
This kiln is in the school, with lotsa competition for time. The enviro-vent is required by the school & goes on automatically. My guess is that it would help eveninity, even if it takes more time to run thru. Also, I fuse the projects of the whole class in 1 firing... that's 15 - 16 projects. All different due to the will of the individual student mind... (ie the amount of glass piled on & the degree to which a student pays attention to the super-brilliant-experienced-allknowledgeable&allseeingfusinggenius teacher.)

When I loaded 'er up yesterday, I reduced the gap between shelves toward the top. Don't know why... just my incredible, never-fail fusing instincts, eh?

Brian... love to share in your RichesTM.... Prefer diamonds to Euros, if it's convenient for you. In fact, to further enhance the convenience factor, I could even stop by the Isle O' Wight & pick up my RichesTM. Just tell me how big my RichesSack(TM) must be to fit my RichesTM?

xxoo,
PDXBarbara

I said they were working on Riches tm

Diddent say they got any

U might try Marty

Brian

[rosanna gusler]

so...........how did they come out or did i miss that? rosanna

[lynn]

I also used a deep skutt kiln for years while I taught ceramics.
I wanted to warn you about being short and trying to get to the bottom of it. I broke a rib by balancing on the edge /trying to get a kiln shelf in to the bottom. Freaked the kids out as the heard it and it HURT. I got a cement block to stand on. Just a warning!

[PDXBarbara]

OUCH...
Thank for the warning, Lynn. I DO balance on the edge... even when I'm standing on a chair, cause otherwise I'd tumble in head first. This week Ihad to load the whole thing myself. I almost barfed trying to do the bottom layer. Still feel as if bruised where I was hanging over the edge.

Glad to hear it's not just that I'm a wimp!

My assistant, an 8th-grader, is way taller than me & usually handles at least the bottom layers for me. This week, he couldn't hang around after the class to help, so there I was hanging oveer the edge trying to handle the damn bottom layer, & ALSO do it right.

Rosanna: I haven't got pix of the kids stuff yet. But I'm doing better with using the ceramic kiln & multi-shelves. Some projects get a bit over-fused, but that can't be helped....volume control is all over the map.

Had them do kilncarving... a few of the kids really got IT. ... the concept of relief dimension...which is pretty cool.

xxoo
Barbara

[Paul Bush]

OUCH...
Thank for the warning, Lynn. I DO balance on the edge... even when I'm standing on a chair, cause otherwise I'd tumble in head first. This week Ihad to load the whole thing myself. I almost barfed trying to do the bottom layer. Still feel as if bruised where I was hanging over the edge.

Glad to hear it's not just that I'm a wimp!

My assistant, an 8th-grader, is way taller than me & usually handles at least the bottom layers for me. This week, he couldn't hang around after the class to help, so there I was hanging oveer the edge trying to handle the damn bottom layer, & ALSO do it right.

Rosanna: I haven't got pix of the kids stuff yet. But I'm doing better with using the ceramic kiln & multi-shelves. Some projects get a bit over-fused, but that can't be helped....volume control is all over the map.

Had them do kilncarving... a few of the kids really got IT. ... the concept of relief dimension...which is pretty cool.

xxoo
Barbara

Hey Barb - sorry for the late post - I've been offline for a few days. The trick to fusing in a ceramic kiln is going slower and holding longer. When I first made the pottery-to-glass switch, I got a firing schedule from Uroboros, who was doing testing of just this scenario for Skutt. I think you can also get some help from the good folks at Skutt. Because of the large volume of air and the mass of the kiln walls and multi shelves, it take a long time for the temp to even out throughout the kiln. But it works fine, once you get the hang of it. I used my pottery kiln for over a year, before making the leap to a Paragon glass kiln.

Have fun.

Paul

[PDXBarbara]

Thanks Paul. The one I'm using has an enviro-vent too... which will help with eveninity. Did you have one on your ceramic kiln?
xxoo
BB

[Paul Bush]

Yes I did, which certainly helped even out the temperature. I also had zone control, which means there were three thermocouples, each reading a different section of the kiln (top, middle, bottom), and turned specific rows of element on and off to maintain the same temp within 5 degrees throughout the kiln. Without these nifty features, you just need to go slower to allow the kiln to even itself out.

Paul

[PDXBarbara]

So, Paul, with the envirovent, you still went slow & long, right?

xxoo
B

[Paul Bush]

Slower and longer than I would in a glass kiln, with top elements, but faster than I would in a ceramic kiln that didn't have a vent and / or zone control.

Paul