Artista glass compatibility

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:47 pm

Anyone know the CoE of the Artista glass described here?

http://www.schott.com/uk/english/produc ... tista.html

Is any of the Artista range compatible with BE CoE 90?

TIA

Anna · Post by **Anna** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:14 am

Artista is 90 COE, like BE, and compatible with it. Also with Uroboro, but my supplier said that the test is wanted. Annealing like BE. I don't like this type of glass: it is very hard( behaves like Float), at the same piece with BE the edges stay still sharp when the BE is already soft. Occasionaly I have a work of BE+Artista in my kiln just now. It will take the couple of days to send you a photo, if you want.

Anna.

Jan de Jong · Post by **Jan de Jong** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:43 am

Hi,

I use CLEAR Artista as base for BE, with good results (and cheaper !)
Further I think (so I don't say it is) the clear Artista is good for 1 layer projects. I did make a IceCrystal with only 1 layer and not the effect as by BE with one layer (sorry, did forget the name: the glass is going to the inside between the edges)
Jan

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:19 am

I believe that Artista is a cousin to the glass called GNA in the US. Lundstrom describes an interesting technique for making pate de verre hollow vessels using GNA and BE. You need frit made with both glasses and you line the sides of a mold with a mixture of both frits. The Be softens before the GNA so the GNA holds the matrix in place. The BE provides the "glue" to hold it all together. If fired properly, the glass will remain on the sides of the mold without falling down and you can make a vessel like a glass or a vase shape. They have the same expansions but very different viscosities. Annealing must consider both glasses.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:26 pm

Thanks folks.

The reason I'm considering Artista is to use it as a lid to cover BE elements. I'm looking at using 6mm clear Artista, because of price & availability.

Plus it's an excuse to take a trip to Deutschland and check if the beer quality is as good as it was 10 years ago and the missus can check the January sales.

Phil Isaac sent me a fantastic link to a comparison table showing characteristics & properties of clear float glass, Bullseye, transparent Spectrum, Uroboros and Artista. Well worth a look and bookmarking, if you use any of these glass types...

http://www.a-m.de/englisch/lexikon/visk ... tafel3.htm

Studying the table, couple of points;

-the softening point of Artista is 720degC and BE is 677degC, hence the harder glass characteristics Anna mentioned. Maybe the glass is also less fluid and will need a longer soak at full fuse to give a nice radiused edge.

-the annealing ramp would stay the same; I usually start at 570degC through to 370degC for BE, adjusting the rate of cooling according to the thickness of the piece.

Any further thoughts or experience of the above would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Oh and Jan you're not alone, I also have other names. Most of which are not suitable here but most recently Birthday Boy. (50yrs a few weeks ago)

Cheryl Wade · Post by **Cheryl Wade** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:36 pm

Paul
I haven't had too much experience with fusing, I'm taking evening classes in stained glass including warm glass. I use Artista for fusing projects and had no problems combining it with dichroic (from CBS) and Spectrum 90CoE fusible. I haven't used it with regular BE but have recently experimented with BE irridescent and have had problems- stress every time and immediate cracking when the Artista, BE and dichroic pieces touch each other. I've fused at 830C and 840C (I know this is really too high for the BE irridescent but wanted to see what it looked like - not bad) with 10 min soaks and very conservative annealing time. I'm going to refire the last disaster at 815C to see if that will help. As usual, do lots of test pieces.
Cheers
Cheryl

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:57 pm

Thanks Cheryl, interesting that you fire to 830/840degC.

Are you firing to a higher temp to accomodate the Artista?

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn · Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:37 am

Paul Stevenson wrote:Thanks folks.

The reason I'm considering Artista is to use it as a lid to cover BE elements. I'm looking at using 6mm clear Artista, because of price & availability.

Plus it's an excuse to take a trip to Deutschland and check if the beer quality is as good as it was 10 years ago and the missus can check the January sales.

Phil Isaac sent me a fantastic link to a comparison table showing characteristics & properties of clear float glass, Bullseye, transparent Spectrum, Uroboros and Artista. Well worth a look and bookmarking, if you use any of these glass types...

http://www.a-m.de/englisch/lexikon/visk ... tafel3.htm

Studying the table, couple of points;

-the softening point of Artista is 720degC and BE is 677degC, hence the harder glass characteristics Anna mentioned. Maybe the glass is also less fluid and will need a longer soak at full fuse to give a nice radiused edge.

-the annealing ramp would stay the same; I usually start at 570degC through to 370degC for BE, adjusting the rate of cooling according to the thickness of the piece.

Any further thoughts or experience of the above would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Oh and Jan you're not alone, I also have other names. Most of which are not suitable here but most recently Birthday Boy. (50yrs a few weeks ago)

This link from Phil Isaac is good

http://www.a-m.de/englisch/lexikon/visk ... tafel3.htm

If U digg arround the site there is lots of secret stuff

From

http://www.a-m.de/englisch/index.html

Look at site map -- glass

There r viscoty tables hidden in there somewhere

The company appears 2 sell Bornnitride n shuch

Brian

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn · Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:45 am

Paul Stevenson wrote:Anyone know the CoE of the Artista glass described here?

http://www.schott.com/uk/english/produc ... tista.html

Is any of the Artista range compatible with BE CoE 90?

TIA

I got this a year or so ago

Artista coe 94

Are they now saying this is changed I could not find any coe stuff on the site link

Below is from my personal Top Secret files

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Yo 2 all in Spab Land

I have used desag antique 75 since about 1981

http://www.blanthorn.com/bowls/bowls_19 ... _large.htm

Its flat no bubbles not tend 2 devit ( bubbles R on interface )

Its transparant

Crushed up it dosent devit either

http://www.blanthorn.com/bowls/bowls_19 ... _large.htm

Watch out 4 some colour combinations

Orangy + blues I think give brown at interface

In antique 75 some darker colours R not as compat

I have not used Artista but I expect it 2 B the same but should B more compatabbabe

Heres some stuff from my top secret private archives

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Blanthorn
To: Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:45 PM
Subject: COE DESAG IMERA MAGIRA

Hi All added coe of Imera

If I have made error please tell

Changed all coe to 10 - 7

desag 75 is now Magera ( in USA its GNA )

unfortunately and this is BAD Magira GNA and Artista has the same pattern a very slight sort of wavy brushed pattern

Why they have not distinguished them is beyond me but then what do I know

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Further to the information that you sent to me from the web-site and our subsequent telephone conversations I am pleased to forward the details that Schott Desag have responded with.

Co-efficient of expansions

Imera 90 - 96 a flat float type glass which is available in 9 colours but is not made compatable

Antique 75 Sold before 1990 90-96*10-7K-1

Magira 90-96*10-7K-1

Artista 94*10-7K1

"Artista is a closer specified version of Magira. This closer specification guarantees the fuseability of the Artista colours with each other.

Antique 75 is the old name of Magira. It was/is never made to be compatible.

When people succeed in fusing some Magira colours it happens because they have made test and the coefficient was coincidentally the same.

The name of Magira in USA is GNA - German New Antique"

I do hope this addresses the main questions.

Regards
Cathy Salt

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Brian again

all glass in approx 3 - 9 mm size 1600 x 1500 some bigger

http://www.schott.com/desag/english/products/index.html

magira / artista / imera

note glass sink Barabra

http://www.schott.com/english/company/ main site

All the best

Brian

Cheryl Wade · Post by **Cheryl Wade** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:21 pm

Paul
Yes, Artista is hard; lower temps, whilst full fusing, leave the surface of the individual pieces raised; even at 830C they look like shiny wine gums - almost good enough to eat - or is that too good to eat?

I tried some more test pieces using two colours of BE irridescent, both irridescent side up and down, and flat (not textured) dichroic on a clear Artista base - disaster, stress on each edge. Also the dichoic seeped irregularly along the joins - not a pretty sight. Looking at the table you posted, it seems as if it might be incompatible viscosities. I haven't tried coloured Artista yet but will do so to see if it's just a problem with the clear; shouldn't think so but you never know.

Brian
Your work is gorgeous. If it's not a secret, how do you make the pebbles? Are they cast? In several layers? How do you get the metallic outer surfaces? Not that I'll attempt to make any, just drool over yours.

Cheers
Cheryl

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn · Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:27 am

Cheryl Wade wrote:Paul
Yes, Artista is hard; lower temps, whilst full fusing, leave the surface of the individual pieces raised; even at 830C they look like shiny wine gums - almost good enough to eat - or is that too good to eat?

I tried some more test pieces using two colours of BE irridescent, both irridescent side up and down, and flat (not textured) dichroic on a clear Artista base - disaster, stress on each edge. Also the dichoic seeped irregularly along the joins - not a pretty sight. Looking at the table you posted, it seems as if it might be incompatible viscosities. I haven't tried coloured Artista yet but will do so to see if it's just a problem with the clear; shouldn't think so but you never know.

Brian
Your work is gorgeous. If it's not a secret, how do you make the pebbles? Are they cast? In several layers? How do you get the metallic outer surfaces? Not that I'll attempt to make any, just drool over yours.

Cheers
Cheryl

Thanks

On my web site there is a bio info which has some method info

In adition I do chat about most of the methods I use on the board

If U look em all up U will know more than I do

In brief the opalecent stuff is 4mm glass laminated in blocks in simple moulds

Fuzed then sawn /ground / polished

Some getting big now

About 18 " x 10 " 21 lb or so being 70 layers or so

Fired up very slow

Currently working on 24" slab saw so should get em bigger n easier

The opalecent effect is internal usually

Top secret, hence our fortified Island location , n underground lab complex

Brian

WarmGlass.com