Hanging a large piece in a window...

[travisraybold]

ive searched the archives, and found lots of good info about hanging large pieces, but it is all based on hanging on a wall.

ive got a potential commission to do a set of tiles to cover 4 windows, the largest of which is 32" x 85". im flexible with the size of the tiles, though my first plan was to use roughyl 16"x16" tiles. one option would be to construct an iron frame for the whole thing, mount them in there and block that in. or i could frame them in horizontal sections and attach each section to the sides of the window frame. a third option that came to mind was to make the tiles smaller (8x8?) and hang them in long vertical rows from the top of the window frame.

id love to hear any thoughts on the viability of these ideas or any other ideas, especially slightly crazy ones ;) a rough draft of the layout is included below...

--travis

<img src="http://raybold.com/cabin2.jpg" width=500 height=305>

[Dani]

Is there a problem taking a conventional stained glass approach? Lead them and either put into a wooden frame to hang.... or stop them into the windows?

[charlie]

it's going to be heavy. you could use either metal or wood to do the framing, but you're going to want to plan on how to install it and take it apart in sections. furthermore, it may (will probably) need supports into the window frame, just like large stained glass pieces. you want to have the piece be supported by reinforcement rods attached to the glass frame into the window frame, not the frame around the glass.

i'd suggest going to look in a church at how they supported large windows, or asking in a stained glass store that does custom installations.

[Amy on Salt Spring]

If this is a private home find out whether they expect to ever get behind your installation to clean the windows on the inside. You may need to make that possible in your frame design.
Amy

[Dani]

If this is a private home find out whether they expect to ever get behind your installation to clean the windows on the inside. You may need to make that possible in your frame design.
Amy

We tell all our clients that "benign neglect" is the best care for art windows. In all the years of commissions, thousands of them, we only have one customer who insisted upon being able to remove his windows for cleaning. So he got custom brass channels in his window frames. And we got an ongoing repair client. Have probably repaired more broken glass for him than all our other new window customers combined! Don't even mention cleaning.

[travisraybold]

Is there a problem taking a conventional stained glass approach? Lead them and either put into a wooden frame to hang.... or stop them into the windows?

i'd be a bit afraid to put that much weight using just lead (did i mention the tiles will be 2 layers plus decorative elements?). perhaps with rebar... but id feel much better if i can keep the majority of the weight off of the bottom tiles.

thanks for the advice about benign neglect, i'll tell them your story, and im sure they will happily agree to never clean the window behind it ;)

--travis

[charlie]

i'd be a bit afraid to put that much weight using just lead (did i mention the tiles will be 2 layers plus decorative elements?). perhaps with rebar... but id feel much better if i can keep the majority of the weight off of the bottom tiles.--travis

you put a metal or wooden dowel in the lead H frame on the bottom to prevent it from collapsing.

[Amy on Salt Spring]

If this is a private home find out whether they expect to ever get behind your installation to clean the windows on the inside. You may need to make that possible in your frame design.
Amy

We tell all our clients that "benign neglect" is the best care for art windows. In all the years of commissions, thousands of them, we only have one customer who insisted upon being able to remove his windows for cleaning. So he got custom brass channels in his window frames. And we got an ongoing repair client. Have probably repaired more broken glass for him than all our other new window customers combined! Don't even mention cleaning.

If its something that sits in front of the window with space, which I got the impression it was, then dust collects behind the piece that can't be reached. I've only done one big multi window installation piece but they wanted to be able to move the art away and clean the regular windows behind it--not clean the art glass. We built a system to do that without a problem.

[Amy on Salt Spring]

We didn't bring that up though--they did, so if they don't mention it then I agree that you shouldn't bring it up. It added a lot more difficulty to the project!
-A

[Dani]

Is there a problem taking a conventional stained glass approach? Lead them and either put into a wooden frame to hang.... or stop them into the windows?

i'd be a bit afraid to put that much weight using just lead (did i mention the tiles will be 2 layers plus decorative elements?). perhaps with rebar... but id feel much better if i can keep the majority of the weight off of the bottom tiles.

thanks for the advice about benign neglect, i'll tell them your story, and im sure they will happily agree to never clean the window behind it

--travis

We often use fused glass in our stained and painted church windows. Many are quite large and they are leaded. Usually they are installed into the window apertures against insulated units, and if the size is more than 14 perimeter feet, bracing bars are designed in that are extended into the window molding. On larger hanging windows, a good solid hardwood frame offers sufficient support despite weight. Remember that lead is not as fragile as many perceive it to be (in fact, more likely to hold up over time than zinc or harder metal channels) with proper cementing and in today's world, there is added protection by virtue of existing exterior glazing. In the old days, stained glass was the only glazing in a structure and the bracing bars were added to handle wind. That's rarely an issue now.

[travisraybold]

We often use fused glass in our stained and painted church windows. Many are quite large and they are leaded. Usually they are installed into the window apertures against insulated units, and if the size is more than 14 perimeter feet, bracing bars are designed in that are extended into the window molding. On larger hanging windows, a good solid hardwood frame offers sufficient support despite weight. Remember that lead is not as fragile as many perceive it to be (in fact, more likely to hold up over time than zinc or harder metal channels) with proper cementing and in today's world, there is added protection by virtue of existing exterior glazing. In the old days, stained glass was the only glazing in a structure and the bracing bars were added to handle wind. That's rarely an issue now.

cool, i guess i was just being overly cautious :) i will probably end up going with a butch frame and lead (perhaps with a bit of rebar for good measure) then. i've not done a stained glass piece this large before, and then adding in the double thickness made me nervous.

another possibility is a cabling and connector hanging system that was referred to me. it looks very cool, and i will probably use it elsewhere if not in this project. they are called arakawa grips, and the url is http://www.arakawagrip.com/
thanks for all the ideas and suggestions everyone!

--travis

[Ann Demko]

Travis, Thaks for the info on the hanging system. I have a panel in mind and now I have a method of hanging it. Thanks for the research. Ann

[travisraybold]

Travis, Thaks for the info on the hanging system. I have a panel in mind and now I have a method of hanging it. Thanks for the research. Ann

that was actually a comment from someone else here on the warm glass boards.

i'd love to hear how it works out for you, it looks like a clever system :)

--travis