MESH MELT DISASTER

[Havi]

SHALOM..................
Attached is the photo of my first and only mesh melt............
A complete disaster
I bought the net as SS, which is evidently not the case. At 600 c. it began folding, and at 927 [1700 F.] it was inside the glass down below. I told myslf I go thru the whole process, and see how I would deal with it after apropriate annealing, it should be toatlly wasted.

It is not yet cold enough to get it out of the kiln, even though its quite hot here

Please note, that it also pushed the bricks...

What do you suggest, how would I break it? Just use a hammer?
There are also flakes of the silvery coating of this supposedly SS,

But I have to say that there are some nice results there, and I'd like to repeat this process ASAP.
Once I take it out of the kiln, I'll first start a new one, and only then - go back to this one and deal with it.

Your comments will be GREATLY appreciated,
many thanks in advance


Havi

[David Jenkins]

Were the 5-6 rods visible in the image originally there to help arrange the glass pieces before the melt? Did they perhaps roll around when the glass started melting and allow the volume to shift towards the center while the rack was beginning to fall in? Not sure that has anything to do with the frame collapsing in the first place, though.

That frame looks like an oven rack - was it? Do you know the type of SS it was made from? E.g., 316?

[Dairy Queen]

Hang it on the wall, and move on.

[Havi]

Were the 5-6 rods visible in the image originally there to help arrange the glass pieces before the melt? YES Did they perhaps roll around when the glass started melting and allow the volume to shift towards the center while the rack was beginning to fall in? I think so Not sure that has anything to do with the frame collapsing in the first place, though. ME neither, I simpley think that this is not really SS

That frame looks like an oven rack - was it? YES IT IS - but it was sold to me being SS...Do you know the type of SS it was made from? E.g., 316? Unfortunately I do not know

I have an additional question, I have some strips of SS, they are about 1 c'm wide [1/4" ???] and 1 m'm [about 1/32" ???] thick. Do you think that it will or will not bend at the temp of 1700F ???
Do you think that those rods can be a part of the mesh, or will it collapse again?

Dairy Q, thanks your idea is great. By the time I read it, the thing was almost completely broken with a hammer. Though.

many thanks to you both,
Havi

[The Hobbyist]

This setup never fails. The rebar is cheap.

[Georgia Novak]

Jim: I see the re-bar but do not know what the mesh is. Is it SS? If so where do you purchase it? Thanks, Georgia

[Sharol]

Hi Havi,

I can really empathize with you on this as I had a similar disaster with my first wire melt attempt. The set up I use now is very similar to Jim's, although mine uses SS wire mesh that is made up of interlocking wire that creates square openings. I can't comment on whether the sagging you experienced was as a result of the material your rack was made from, but I think part of the problem was it was made up of parallel rods that had no perpendicular supports. When you added the weight of the glass and heat, the resulting leverage probably caused the bending. Jim's set up, which is a lot like mine, uses mesh that is supported all the way around the perimeter and is anchored to a stout frame. This is really important because even if you support the wire all the way around, it can bend off into the kiln unless it is anchored to the perimeter support in some way. Mine is welded. I think Jim mentioned in an earlier post that his is secured by additional wire.

I posted some details on my set up a little while ago. If you'd like to PM me, I'm happy to share the specifics with you.

Don't lose heart! Once you get you setup squared away, I bet you have a blast with melts!

Sharol

[The Hobbyist]

The mesh is expanded metal. It is not SS so it spalls and will sometimes leave some metal in the melt. I tried SS once (a BBQ grill) and it spalled the same as the metal mesh only it cost a lot more.

I can buy the mesh at my metal club. I get a 4' x 8' sheet and cut it into (32) 12" x 12" squares on the big hydraulic shear. I get the rebar there also. A 20' piece gets cut into 5 48" pieces that bend into 12" squares. The mesh is attached with bailing wire twist-ties, Each assembly costs about a buck so I can through them away after each use.

That's one of the reasons I live here in Sun City West. We have 100's of clubs. The metal club costs me $20 per year in dues. The woodworking club costs $25 per year. Both have every tool imagineable an most in multiples. The annual recreation fee however is $385 per person. I love it. Let me now if you want more info on SCW

Jim

[Mike Jordan]

I had to look twice at your setup, Jim. At first glance that looked like kiln washed 1x2 wood strips with the knots showing on the end in the upper right... and that didn't look like a wood fired kiln.

Mike

[The Hobbyist]

No, those are some of my dams made from salvaged kiln shelves. Many times they are from ceramicists and what you see as knots are glaze drops fused to the shelf before I cut them up.0

Jim

[Dairy Queen]

HaVi, I have switched to a ceramic grid. Ii gives me huge control over the results. Not at home, so have no photos. But I make flat ceramic grids with however many holes of desired size. My favorite is a slotted sheet of clay, one inch wide slots running parallel, or even crossing. I'll get photos.

[Havi]

HaVi, I have switched to a ceramic grid. Ii gives me huge control over the results. Not at home, so have no photos. But I make flat ceramic grids with however many holes of desired size. My favorite is a slotted sheet of clay, one inch wide slots running parallel, or even crossing. I'll get photos.

Dear Dairy
What a smart idea!!! Thank you for sharing it............
What would I have done without this board
I really do'nt know.

Meanwhile, I have contacted a metal supplier shop here. He suggested I take rods that are 5 m'm thick, [310] claiming that probabley they would not bend. It is not cheap, also I shall have to drive somewhere to get the rods cut, as they cut only thicker dia. I am hesitating whether I should buy these, or try the ceramic.
Can you please elaborate on how you actually make the ceramic mesh???

And the other friends, whom I also thank so very much,
If I use these 5 m'm rods - do I have to 'frame' them, or can I simpley lay them on 1" fiberboard frame??

Many thanks in advance, this technique seems to bring me forward with what i want to accomplish, so I am REALLY very very grateful

Havi

[Dairy Queen]

Havi, I roll out a 1 inch thick slab of clay. I cut out and remove circles or slots, at least 1 inch wide. After the clay dries, I fire it to cone 6. Normally, I don't fire clay molds, but I am asking this piece to support the weight of the stacked glass, and I don't want any of the clay material to drop with the glass. Impossible to remove.

[Mark Wright]

I buy my SS wire mesh from Brad Walker at WarmGlass. I don't know if Brad can ship overseas? Perhaps he will chime in and answer.

[Stephen Richard]

Look at Cynthia Morgan's blog (Morganica) for reliable simple method of making a mesh for melting through

[Havi]

Dear friends,
Almost midnight here, and I got to get up early tomorrow.

I am reading very carefully what you write to me, and I shall respond, hopefully tomorrow night [mine]

I AM SO VERY GRATEFUL, SO MANY MANY THANKS, IT IS SO GOOD TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE THOSE WHO CAN HELP ME, EVEN THOUGH SO FAR AWAY.

I'll buy clay tomorrow too,

And will report,
meanwhile here is a more successful experiment,
my first glass boiling - also up to 1700F

good night,
Havi

[Havi]

ראש השנה תשע'ג 033 - Copy.JPG

I am aware its broken [do'nt know why, though], but i like to colors and the organic character of the piece.

G'night again,


Havi

[twin vision glass]

I think if you had a ceramic kiln shelf that you could saw and use as supports for your wire mesh you would not have had it bend. Sad when that happens. The design will be alot more swirling when the drop is so far as well. Also do you need to go that hot. I love to go lower longer, taking longer to reach 1230 F. and holding for a squeeze for 2 or 3 hours.( 100 deg. F. per hour up to 1230 .) (my lucky number is 1220 F. ) anyways, it should all flow at 1480 F. if you hold it at 1480 F. for 1 or more hours. Then the glass stays nice and stable. Use Kiln wash on the bottom of the shelf then no ripping or pulling of fiber also, and if you set a clear piece under it is a nice landing. You will have some clean up along edges regardless. In Keith Cummings book, Techniques in Kiln Casting, he has a great section on how glass flows through different holes and sizes. A great article to help us understand what happens . Also the placement of the glass is really important. Anyways, all good in the road to experimenting.
Les
http://www.bullseyeglass.com/index.php? ... f=14&t=161
Here are some other ideas.

[Havi]

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ADVICES, AND INFORMATION

Dairy,
I shall follow them one by one. First I bought clay, and will make a mesh. However, I do not know what is cone 6? I mean I know - but what is the temprature that is represnts? Is it around 1800 F.??
Also do you lay the clay directly on the shelf while firing it, or do use some separator? if so, which one?

I shall certainly contact Brad seeking a mesh from him. He shipped a lot of staff to me in Israel, so I am hoping this wo'nt be a problem.

Stehpen,
can you be more specific about Cynthia's blog - I'll try and search, but if you know the link - it would be great.

Jim
I have been looking at what you do. . Excuse me if I am asking stupid question - your 'frame' so to speak is not connected to the mullite [kiln shelf] frame , only laid on it, am I right??? Or else, how is it connected to the 'kiln frame'?

Thank you Les,
for sharing your wonderful colorbars and the method you are using to make them, this also might come in one day... [with absolutely different colors]



Many thanks again,

Havi

[Stephen Richard]

Cynthia's blog on glass work is here
http://www.morganica.com/bloggery/category/glasswork/