pate de verre

[orittlandau]

Hello friends,
i began using pate de verre technique.
here are my 3 first tries.
i would love to hear your comments and opinion inorder to find ways to improve my work,
thank you
oritt

[orittlandau]

there are 2 things I would like to learn about pate de verre:
1.in the picture of the 2 faces there are holes between the frits. Is it ok? Or is it a fault? Looking to the piece through the light is nice to see the holes but is it ok?
2. in the blue picture I put more percent of powder so there is a shining look of the pate de verre. Is it good? Or is the purpose of pate de verre is the look of kind of sugar as the yellow piece in the other picture I sent?
i hope I made my points clear..? and hope to hear your opinion
thanks
oritt

[Valerie Adams]

I don't know much about the technique but my answer to your questions would be, 'if you're happy with the results, then you're on the right track!' The holes would concern me if they made the piece too fragile or if you don't like them. As for the gloss, I like seeing different textures in a single piece.

If you're enjoying working like this, bravo! (I know I'd never have the patience).

[orittlandau]

Thank you Valerie .
I love the fragile look of thin pate de verre(about 2mm). With the holes it seems like it is fragile but it is really strong inspite of the holes .
I love the "wild" natural look of the piece like in this piece:

http://glassquarterly.files.wordpress.c ... 6thumb.jpg

But if we look at Nishi works: it is so delicate and still there are no holes
http://www.chappellgallery.com/japan/nishi_gallery.htm


I got an advice from Osnat (a member in this board too) that told me to wait with putting the piece in the kiln until the cmc is dry and then the holes can be seen and we can put frits there to avoid holes.
About the shining look: I paid attention to the fact that most of pate de verre works are opaque and has the grain like sugar look and it cant be seen when the piece is shining.

[Morganica]

Hi, Oritt;

I don't think you're on the wrong track if (as Val says) you like the result. Even the developers of pate de verre (there were many, mostly in France) had different methods and end results, and there's so much experimentation being done with the technique today that (I think) pretty much anything is OK.

That said, I think it's important to understand what happened whether you like the result or not, if only because you may want to do it on purpose next time. So (apologies for the length):

Holes: You'll get holes in pate de verre when there's not enough glass in that spot. That can be because you didn't enough glass there or because heat and/or gravity have caused the glass to slide away.

Frit compacts much more than sheet glass, losing half or more of its volume before firing(edit: oops, that should be "as much as half..."). People are usually surprised to see how much frit it takes to make a solid piece of pate de verre. 6mm thickness at fusing heatwork levels probably needs at least a 12mm layer of powder to avoid holes. Otherwise, the glass tends to soften, compact and pull away from the thinner areas. You can control the tendency to make holes by reducing the level of heatwork.

Surface quality: The very first pieces of pate de verre had a kind of sandpapery look, but most of the pate de verre produced during the Art Nouveau period was very solid, smooth and jade-like. If you'd like to see examples of original pate de verre visit the Macklowe Gallery website and search for pate de verre. They always have some beautiful examples--Almaric Walter's are probably the most beautiful: http://tinyurl.com/macklowe

But again, you can do whatever you like, and the trend today is for more surface texture. Powder against the mold surface tends to give a smoother finish to the piece. The coarser the frit that touches the mold surface (usually), the more you can see/feel the original grains. You also control the surface quality with heat--the more heatwork you give the piece, the less you'll see the grains.

Shininess: Glass touching the surface of the mold takes on some of the texture of the mold (especially if you're using frit) and at best just has a satiny gloss--you usually must coldwork it to a full shine if that's what you want. If it's shiny, it probably wasn't in full contact with the mold surface, or it was on the top of an open-faced mold.

In this piece, the bottom of the bowl was touching the mold and the top wasn't. The bottom was rough and dull (I've coldworked it to a satin finish)--the top is completely glossy:

Transparency: Classic pate de verre was translucent, not opaque. The makers were using transparent, usually colored frits (although some artists only used clear ground glass with mineral colorants). If the piece were solid transparent glass without bubbles, the light would go straight through, but all that frit traps tiny bubbles which you can't see through. Any light entering a piece of pate de verre hits those bubbles, travels in all directions and emerges somewhere else, which makes the piece seem to glow. It's rather like putting thousands of tiny, tiny mirrors inside your piece.

I've experimented with transparent and opaque glasses in pate de verre; unless it's a very thin layer, putting opaque frit on the surface of the mold in pate de verre stops the light too soon. The piece will look as if it's been painted. I can use opaque powder to tint fine transparent frit (or to mix with a lot of transparent powder), or I can sift a very fine layer of a dark opaque color far back in the piece for shading...but the more I use, the more light it will stop.

Here's an example: Both of these pieces are made with a mixture of Bullseye Crystal Clear (fine frit and powder) and Light Peach Cream powder, with identical packing techniques except on the surface. In the first example, I sifted pure, opaque Light Peach Cream powder right on the surface of the mold. In the second, I sifted 10% LPC powder mixed with 90% Crystal Clear. See what a difference it makes:

[Valerie Adams]

Great post (as usual) Cynthia! As I told Oritt, I don't know much about pate de verre, but you can bet I've saved your great info so I'll be more informed if/when I decide to play with the technique.

Your generosity to this board is extremely valued!

[Havi]

Great post (as usual) Cynthia! As I told Oritt, I don't know much about pate de verre, but you can bet I've saved your great info so I'll be more informed if/when I decide to play with the technique.

Your generosity to this board is extremely valued!

ME too!!
Extremely valued.
I posted you also on the Israeli glass forum - a link, I mean, and recomendation.

[Havi]

Cynthia!
I see very clearly the difference between the 2 off white pieces.
I wonder, do you think I could apply the same method of mixing powders - say at Bob's crackles technique, and other methods of working with powders?
the shine is wonderful, probably the tranclucency too....
???

Thanks, as above,

Havi

[orittlandau]

God bless you cynthia!
you enriched my knowledge!
Thank you very very much!!!

[S.TImmerman]

Great post (as usual) Cynthia! As I told Oritt, I don't know much about pate de verre, but you can bet I've saved your great info so I'll be more informed if/when I decide to play with the technique.

Your generosity to this board is extremely valued!

YES! What Val said!