Ben & Vanessa's Newcomer Questions and Endless Posts

[beninfl]

Hi everyone! I'd like to introduce us, we're Ben & Vanessa from Sarasota FL. Usually we're stained glass people, but we're tired of it and its time for a change. Fusing & Slumping was what we should have focused on first in glass, but we never knew what it was at the time. Alas, here we are today.

So we picked up a Jen Ken Bonnie Glo 15/6 from KilnFrog that should be here sometime soon. And Slumpys had a big sale so we picked up 81 molds for under $175. Lot of little goofy ones but some nice plates, bowls, cabinet hardware, fun stuff.

I wish all the stained glass we have would fuse. Looks like we'll be going the COE96 route. I'll post pictures and such as things come in and are made, and make this thread my journal of sorts for warm glass. You'll get to see our happy glass and sad glass and questions in between.

So, first question -- Is Wissmach 96 any good? Right now we're in sticker shock at the expense of the glass. Wissmach 96 clear is sure inexpensive compared to the top brands. What sort of glass is good to learn and experiment with?

Thanks everyone! And if your in the Sarasota/Bradenton area, feel free to shoot us a PM!

B & V

[RachelM]

Welcome.

Not to get into a discussion of coe 96 versus 90, but you are about an hour north of AAE Glass, a great Bullseye resource center. AAE Glass is in Cape Coral.

Also, you CAN fuse with leftover stained glass. But, since the coe is unknown, it would have to be fused unto itself, has a high probability of denitrifying (scumming up) and generally might give you wonky colors after fusing.

Rachel (from the other side of the state)
Hollywood, FL
Imaglassydiva@aol.com

[Marty]

Wissmach is making a "90",not "96". The palette is limited, I don't know anyone who is using it, are they making it here or importing it, is the price that much lower than Spectrum, Uroborous or Bullseye, is it tested and if so, how? So many questions. Get the polarized thingies and do some tests with other "90" glass. You may be able to finesse it if you don't ask too much from the glass.

Regarding the stained glass: In your position I'd see what happens at low slump temps- you may be able to come up with a bunch of really low cost single layer items that can be dumped at weekend flea markets just to get the stuff gone. Think 1150 instead of 1250.

BTW it's devitrifying with a 'v'.

[beninfl]

Welcome.

Not to get into a discussion of coe 96 versus 90, but you are about an hour north of AAE Glass, a great Bullseye resource center. AAE Glass is in Cape Coral.

Also, you CAN fuse with leftover stained glass. But, since the coe is unknown, it would have to be fused unto itself, has a high probability of denitrifying (scumming up) and generally might give you wonky colors after fusing.

Rachel (from the other side of the state)
Hollywood, FL
Imaglassydiva@aol.com

Thanks! I'll have to check them out. I've seen them advertise on Craigslist, but I couldnt tell much about them. We have "GlassCrafters" locally, but their fusing selection stinks, not even a full row of glass and the prices are crazy.

Wissmach is making a "90",not "96". The palette is limited, I don't know anyone who is using it, are they making it here or importing it, is the price that much lower than Spectrum, Uroborous or Bullseye, is it tested and if so, how? So many questions. Get the polarized thingies and do some tests with other "90" glass. You may be able to finesse it if you don't ask too much from the glass.

Regarding the stained glass: In your position I'd see what happens at low slump temps- you may be able to come up with a bunch of really low cost single layer items that can be dumped at weekend flea markets just to get the stuff gone. Think 1150 instead of 1250.

BTW it's devitrifying with a 'v'.

Sure, they make 90 & 96.

http://www.wissmachglass.com/whatsNew.aspx

http://www.franklinartglass.com/shop/it ... -pcs/6493/

[Marian]

I have tried Wissmach dichroic on clear . It is very thin and has some unusual textures. It does devitrify with the clear glass side up when heated to fusing temperature. I tried grinding off the surface to expose fresh glass but that devitrified as well. So I would encase it or just expose the lovely textures. If you guys are just starting, pick one manufacturer and COE and stay with that. In the long run, you will be glad. Yes, glass is expensive.

[Marty]

B&V- sorry, I missed that (the 2 COEs). Is Wissmach making the stuff themselves?

[Don Burt]

Tired of stained glass? What a depressing thought. With a kiln you can explore glass painting or integrating fused elements into your stained glass work ya know? Something that sparkles in a window is more fun than a collapsed wine bottle or a piece of glass slumped into a hankerchief mold.

[Brock]

Anything is more fun than a collapsed wine bottle . . .

[beninfl]

I have tried Wissmach dichroic on clear . It is very thin and has some unusual textures. It does devitrify with the clear glass side up when heated to fusing temperature. I tried grinding off the surface to expose fresh glass but that devitrified as well. So I would encase it or just expose the lovely textures. If you guys are just starting, pick one manufacturer and COE and stay with that. In the long run, you will be glad. Yes, glass is expensive.

Thanks for the tips...... I've got a 4oz dichro oddball cuts package on the way so I'll be able to tinker with it myself. COE is 96......

B&V- sorry, I missed that (the 2 COEs). Is Wissmach making the stuff themselves?

No sorry necessary! It looks like its new enough most glass stores dont even have it yet. I cant imagine them not making it, their factory is pretty well equipped and I've visited it a number of times when I lived an hour away from them. Used to pick up glass for $1/pound direct from them for their odds. Now I live in Sarasota which is a 23 hour drive to Wissmach, so I wont be back any time soon. Of course, I dont know for sure if they do or dont make the coe96 glass....

Tired of stained glass? What a depressing thought. With a kiln you can explore glass painting or integrating fused elements into your stained glass work ya know? Something that sparkles in a window is more fun than a collapsed wine bottle or a piece of glass slumped into a hankerchief mold.

Very much so. The "idea" of stained glass is wonderful. Making it, however, is a real chore. It's extremely repetitive and extremely labor intensive. Draw, Cut, Grind, Foil, Solder, Polish. Draw, Cut, Grind, Foil, Solder, Polish. Draw, Cut, Grind, Foil, Solder, Polish. Draw, Cut, Grind, Foil, Solder, Polish. Draw, Cut, Grind, Foil, Solder, Polish. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Fused glass is much more of a beautiful medium to view. You can do a lot more with the glass. You can, of course, incorporate fused glass into stained glass windows, but it's such a laborious process that you'll probably not be making money when you sell the finished piece.

I make Tiffany lamps that sell for $1500. All day long people ask me why they are so expensive. Most (95%) of the people I talk to about them just dont understand it. They dont realize to cut out 500-1500 pieces of glass by hand and assemble them takes any time at all. And then you go on Craigslist and see people selling lamps for $100-$150 of garbage quality with giant big pieces in them and folks compare your work to that.

Stained glass anything is just a hard sell these days. A really hard sell. Most of my stained glass money I make is in selling templates and selling Skype chat training sessions. I'm in glass for the love of the art, but also have to pay the rent with it too!

Anything is more fun than a collapsed wine bottle . . .

The grass is greener on the other side..... I look forward to slumping a bottle! Our focus will be more on plates and jewelry and things like that, but we'll surely slump a few bottles along the way!

Thanks everyone!

B & V

[Kevin Midgley]

Many people come into my studio and ask about kiln formed glass. If they are already doing stained glass I recommend to them to stick with that. I describe it this way..... kiln formed glass is the new millennium's 1970's macrame. Everyone wants to do it. They get sold a whole lot of expensive fusible glass and other equipment that when they tire of the activity cannot be used like the macrame string, in the garden. As a result of this flood of people's interest, you'll find your sales area flooded with work similar to that which you plan to sell making it difficult to obtain an economic return on your investment in the expensive fusible glass.
Newcomers assume doing the work is as simple as baking a cake and then come to this board wondering why something has broken perhaps 6 months later.

My advice to them all is to stick with the stained glass and do not get sucked into the macrame vortex. You'll be financially better off as to my knowledge fewer and fewer people are doing traditional stained glass.

[Valerie Adams]

Something that sparkles in a window is more fun than a collapsed wine bottle or a piece of glass slumped into a hankerchief mold.

So true! And please, please don't slump bottles

[Valerie Adams]

...but it's [stained glass] such a laborious process that you'll probably not be making money when you sell the finished piece..... I'm in glass for the love of the art, but also have to pay the rent with it too!.....

Wait...we're supposed to be making money with our fused art???

[Brock]

Slumped bottles are the suncatchers of fusing, only way less interesting.

[beninfl]

Many people come into my studio and ask about kiln formed glass. If they are already doing stained glass I recommend to them to stick with that. I describe it this way..... kiln formed glass is the new millennium's 1970's macrame. Everyone wants to do it. They get sold a whole lot of expensive fusible glass and other equipment that when they tire of the activity cannot be used like the macrame string, in the garden. As a result of this flood of people's interest, you'll find your sales area flooded with work similar to that which you plan to sell making it difficult to obtain an economic return on your investment in the expensive fusible glass.
Newcomers assume doing the work is as simple as baking a cake and then come to this board wondering why something has broken perhaps 6 months later.

My advice to them all is to stick with the stained glass and do not get sucked into the macrame vortex. You'll be financially better off as to my knowledge fewer and fewer people are doing traditional stained glass.

That's so funny, that's exactly what I tell people looking to get into stained glass. Minus the macrame comparison, of course! Fewer and fewer people are doing traditional stained glass because there's too little money in it for too much work. And dont get me wrong, it isnt all about money -- in fact not by a long shot. But when you have someone wanting to buy a piece that takes you 2 weeks solid to make for $500, and the materials are $250 alone, it makes more sense to work for a dollar an hour at McDonalds than to sell stained glass. I have to talk to SO MANY buyers before one is willing to pay the right price for a panel.

Slumped bottles are the suncatchers of fusing, only way less interesting.

[vblue]

I've been using Spectrum's regular transparent and water glass for years with no problem. BUT I always use super spray to prevent the devit.

[beninfl]

I've been using Spectrum's regular transparent and water glass for years with no problem. BUT I always use super spray to prevent the devit.

Awesome. I've ordered a bottle of Super Spray from eBay!

[JamesL]

I will NEVER give up my soldering iron I tell you, NEVER!

[lbailey]

Welcome from another newcomer who spent a lot of time with stained glass. I also got weary of the repetitive process, the only fun part left was choosing the glass (I don't have the talent to design templates, although I revised them frequently). Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed SG for 15 years and kept 6-8 larger panels which are permanently hung in our home, the rest were gifted to friends, family and churches. Plus it was something I did together with my Father, who really got serious with it after retirement 20 years ago. I had the opportunity to teach in casual workshops and that was fun too, but as you say most students don't understand or appreciate the effort involved so few really stick with it after a couple of sun catchers or 1-2 small/simple panels.

Whether we caught the kilnformed glass wave late doesn't really matter to me because I enjoy it immensely. The difference for me is that I get to design the layout from scratch and chose the glass and determine the technique(s) to apply and decide how it will be cold worked and finished, and....... I can change my mind and go in a different direction anywhere in the process. With so many techniques (and combinations of techniques) kilnformed glass is a highly variable opportunity for a guy like me with a creative itch to scratch. I am sure that trained/talented painters, sculptors and other artists are accustomed to this freedom, and have virtually unlimited options when they design/create. But for untrained, curious folk like me this is exciting stuff.

Making $$ from it is a whole different thing and right now for me that is optional. I have sold items in gift shops with a little success but it's annoying to make boring stuff you don't like but sells well. Guess that's the difference between work and not-work. When I retire (which may be soon), I'll probably need to take this more seriously. But until then I make what I choose to make/experiment with...........

Enjoy!

[Barry Kaiser]

Wissmach does make a 96, and yes they do make their own glass..
I only use their 90, and I have never had a devit problem with it.

Just an observation. Probably 1/4 to 1/2 or the people I teach come from a stained glass background.

Barry

[beninfl]

Welcome from another newcomer who spent a lot of time with stained glass. I also got weary of the repetitive process, the only fun part left was choosing the glass (I don't have the talent to design templates, although I revised them frequently). Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed SG for 15 years and kept 6-8 larger panels which are permanently hung in our home, the rest were gifted to friends, family and churches. Plus it was something I did together with my Father, who really got serious with it after retirement 20 years ago. I had the opportunity to teach in casual workshops and that was fun too, but as you say most students don't understand or appreciate the effort involved so few really stick with it after a couple of sun catchers or 1-2 small/simple panels.

Whether we caught the kilnformed glass wave late doesn't really matter to me because I enjoy it immensely. The difference for me is that I get to design the layout from scratch and chose the glass and determine the technique(s) to apply and decide how it will be cold worked and finished, and....... I can change my mind and go in a different direction anywhere in the process. With so many techniques (and combinations of techniques) kilnformed glass is a highly variable opportunity for a guy like me with a creative itch to scratch. I am sure that trained/talented painters, sculptors and other artists are accustomed to this freedom, and have virtually unlimited options when they design/create. But for untrained, curious folk like me this is exciting stuff.

Making $$ from it is a whole different thing and right now for me that is optional. I have sold items in gift shops with a little success but it's annoying to make boring stuff you don't like but sells well. Guess that's the difference between work and not-work. When I retire (which may be soon), I'll probably need to take this more seriously. But until then I make what I choose to make/experiment with...........

Enjoy!

Thanks! I agree wholeheartedly. Here in Sarasota is a very artsy area with art shows all the time everywhere. Look forward to having a booth with our wares in it!

Wissmach does make a 96, and yes they do make their own glass..
I only use their 90, and I have never had a devit problem with it.

Just an observation. Probably 1/4 to 1/2 or the people I teach come from a stained glass background.

Barry

Thanks Barry! I saw Wissmach had your testimonial on their website on how nice their clear was, too.