Waffers

[Havi]

Thanks, Bob
Of course I KNOW this work, and admire it!
Good to know that this is the method you use, i.e. including wafers between layers of glass.

May I ask how thick is the glass you use for that???
I can show you what I started yesterday... which is only the beginning. To be honest I worry about turning it upside down in order to clean from the kilnwash. Still trying to figure out the safest way... this is so fragile

Also, I am hesitating how to continue - should I continue to make wafers, OR work directly on the glass itself. Seems that working with the wafers separately will be 'safer', and easier to correct, if anything goes wrong...
Thanks for the input

HaVi
Sorry, forgot how to minimize.... will post later........

[Bob]

Thanks, Bob
Of course I KNOW this work, and admire it!
Good to know that this is the method you use, i.e. including wafers between layers of glass.

May I ask how thick is the glass you use for that???

Havi it was 3mm sheet glass. I placed wafers, often several pieces overlapping, so that the wafers always extended to the edge of the piece. This allowed the air to escape from between the sheets. I gave it a long bubble squeeze.

I can show you what I started yesterday... which is only the beginning. To be honest I worry about turning it upside down in order to clean from the kilnwash. Still trying to figure out the safest way... this is so fragile

Havi, if you have cleaned the visible kiln wash off the wafer you probably won't have to worry about the wafer not sticking. One important factor is that a wafer placed on top of a sheet of glass and taken to full fuse may devitrify. No matter how well you clean the wafer there are grains of kiln wash that act as nucleation sites for crystals to grow. To solve the problem brush an even coat of overglaze on the wafer before putting it on the top glass surface. You do not have to use overglaze if the wafer is between layers of glass.

Also, I am hesitating how to continue - should I continue to make wafers, OR work directly on the glass itself. Seems that working with the wafers separately will be 'safer', and easier to correct, if anything goes wrong...

I like working with wafers because you can get sharp transitions between colours. If you want to see approximately what the finished project will look like then place the wafers on the glass and spray with water until the wafers are soaking wet. The colours of the wafers bleed through when saturated with water.

Cheers,

Bob

Thanks for the input

HaVi
Sorry, forgot how to minimize.... will post later........

[Havi]

with another wafer not yet fused together, there will be more 'components'

???

Thanks

[Havi]

Another question................

Can I do wafers on a vermiculite shelf???
Until now I did them on mulite - ceramic shelf. Would it be the same? Of course kilnwashed first

Thanks
Havi

[Bob]

Hi Havi,

Yes you can. You might get some texture from the vermiculite. I don't know if you are looking for larger surfaces to make wafers on but if not I recommend using unglazed bisque fired tiles for mini shelves. They are cheap (I pay $60 for 50 tiles that are 6in x 6in) and easy to work with.

Cheers,

Bob

[Havi]

Dear Bob,
I am sorry for the belated thanks, but I am still grateful, VERY grateful for your advices and help.
I have not yet developed the feeling how much powder should I use. I always feel I use too much powder, but when it is fired, it seems too fragile to handle.

I have another question yet, hopefully I'll be able to put it to words in English
You said that the wafers, having been fired become 30% less than the original powder sprinkled. Then, can I use this in order to make kind of stringers or entangles texture??? I want uneven crooked lines...
Just sprinkle powder and let it contract... In my understanding it might also make the stringers thicker, which will make it easier to handle them.

Am I right? wrong?

Thanks a lot,
and have a beautiful weekend, like our was, warm and sunny
Havi

[Bob]

Sorry Havi,

I quickly went back through the thread and can't find where I said the wafers would shrink 30%.I think the 30% might refer to the contraction I get with freeze and fuse.

If you fire wafers to the the point that the powder just holds together then the shrinkage is minimal. Keep increasing the heat and the amount of contract increase because of surface tension. You made a comment about including stringers or other elements in the powder. You bet. The red slash of colour is powder laid over three black stringers and fused to well above 1325f (718C)... probably up in the 1400F range. Surface tension tore the powder apart and distorted the stringers at the same time. I just kept heating it up until the wafer was torn as much as I wanted.... kept peeking in the kiln.

[Havi]

Dear Bob,
I am so grateful for your illuminations! It might not be the right word, but I want to say that your remarks and examples not only teach me, but I also get more ideas from your examples - which is even more encouraging. Thank you so much for doing that to me...
I have now in the kiln something that will be cold enough to get out of the kiln only this evening / night. However, I realize that it needs more working on it. Fine.
I think of working on both sides of the glass sheet. I.e. It wants some background - which might be a combination of staff that I shall fire separately as wafers, before connecting it to the piece itself.
Good idea to add 'normal' stringers, but I also want to make those crooked lines. Once I do that [can be done separately on my smaller kiln] I'll post photos - before and after.
This working method gives me much more freedom, and hence courage to be less conservative .
That's wonderful!
Thank you.

ps it might be somebody else who mentioned that the shrinkage is 30%

HaVI

[Havi]

I would like to post here my experiment with the 'shrinkage' of the glass wafer / powder, once it is being fired.

Here are 2 photos, before and after firing. They show clearly that the powder , once fired became a smaller wafer. As I said before, this is for ME, a good possibility of making crooked lines [excuse the English] then adding them to the piece.

before

after

I still hesitate deciding how much powder should I use to get a wafer which is not that fragile, and will not create bubbles [or holes] once it is fired to the glass background....

Many thanks,

HaVi

[Havi]

I fire wafers at 1250° to 1325°, (sorry, do not know equivalent C°)718 C depending upon how "delicate" I want them to be. Powder can be sifted over stencils, or stenciled through silkscreens (I use 110tpi screens for wafers). They can be fired directly on a kilnwashed kiln shelf, or even on bisque tiles (usually available at ceramic suppliers) that are kilnwashed. The designs are going to shrink around 30%, so you must allow for that if you have a certain size in mind. Wafers added on top of subsequent glass projects whether unfired or prefired, will shrink and distort even more during their firing cycle, especially if you are going to full fuse temperature. This shrinking and distortion will not happen if you add them under the bottom layer of your glasswork (and maybe flip and fire afterwards?). I have been told that you can minimize the shrinking and distortion when placement is on the top of a project by sifting clear powder or clear fine frit on the whole top layer before firing, but I've not tried that yet. I have also "embedded" wafer elements in Patty Gray mold pieces, or "glass box" pieces - where design is composed mostly of fine and medium clear frit with glass and wafer elements placed on different levels and then covered with more clear frit.

If you want to make your wafer more opaque, add a little opaque white slurry to the back of the wafer before placing it on (or under) glass piece. I have a friend who sandblasts the back of her wafers just a little to get rid of kilnwash from firing, but I have never had to do that.

I have tried to fire wafers on thinfire ... didn't work on many levels.

So here is the origin of the 30% shrinkage of the wafer!
Now I have my own experience - and agree with it! this is true, I got to figure out how to work with this info. optimally [i.e. that it won't shrink or shrink less]
Thanks for the input!!!

more questions / dilemmas
If I put the wafer on thin fire paper, under the glass will it be safe? will it not stick to the paper but to the glass??? You partly answered this, so would you recommend firing on kiln washed shelf???

What about enamels? Do enamels shrink too???
Is it safe to use both enamels and powders on the same sheet of glass????

So MANY thanks,

HaVi
So lucky to have you there, and your responses!!! So grateful!

[Bob]

Hi Havi,

Wafers will shrink if they are heated above tack fuse temperatures. At high enough temperatures they will just rip apart. So you can determine the amount of shrinkage you want and use visual observations to control the outcome.
I haven't fired wafers on top of thin fire but I do it with 1/16" fibre paper regularly. The paper may stick a bit to the glass and wafer... sandblasting can clean it up easily.

I have included enamels in wafers but I fire them on in a separate firing.Make the wafer first then add the enamels in a subsequent firing. The enamels go on very thinly.

Cheers,

Bob

[Havi]

Thanks, Bob

As always such wonderful input.
Nothing seconds this WGBB, and its members / Gurus

I owe you much more than words can say

HaVi

[KaCe]

Havi,
I'm grateful for your interest in this topic and all the questions. I am trying to use wafers for something also. Thank you for being such a good contributor to this board, too.
KaCe

[Havi]

Havi,
I'm grateful for your interest in this topic and all the questions. I am trying to use wafers for something also. Thank you for being such a good contributor to this board, too.
KaCe

It's ME who is so grateful for all the good staff that is happening here
Thanks,

HaVi
PS
in addition to bookmarking everything on this thread, I also copy it an save on the comp.

[KaCe]

Me, too. I have several threads pasted into a searchable document. I used to keep it in a database, but my system moved on and I can't afford to bring the database along. It is pricey, but it really did a lot for me. I suppose I should "find" the money somewhere, but right now it can't happen.

KaCe