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Hi everyone,

I was wondering what kind of possible difficulties I would have for installing a large outdoor sculpture in a garden. I have a possible commission from my neighbor for this and would like to hear some advise before I start designing it. Remember that it will probably need to withstand a Wisconsin winter. It will definately be a componet sculpture with a steel base that will be weather treated and I'm sure some sort of footing in the ground.

Thanks in advance.

Amy

Amy Schleif-Mohr wrote:Hi everyone,

I was wondering what kind of possible difficulties I would have for installing a large outdoor sculpture in a garden. I have a possible commission from my neighbor for this and would like to hear some advise before I start designing it. Remember that it will probably need to withstand a Wisconsin winter. It will definately be a componet sculpture with a steel base that will be weather treated and I'm sure some sort of footing in the ground.

Thanks in advance.

Amy

Amy

I have 12 year old outdoor sculptures that have lived outdoors in NH & Maine year round. My sculptures are 78" tall and made with 2 layers of 1/2" float glass with enamel paintings encased in the middle.

I'd say just go for it. The killer factor to consider when designing the installation is of course water. As long as it doesn't get in to tight places and freeze you will be fine. I like to make my bases with coreten steel. This steel is designed to rust and then stop rusting so that it will not disintegrate. It picks up a nice rusty patina. There are many ways to get the job done including cementing it in to the ground. The one technique that I found to be killer was epoxy. I tried epoxying glass in to a base once using the epoxy used for Dalle de Verre glass windows. It heated considerably while setting and cracked my glass which was then permanently set in epoxy. That piece lived in my parents home until I tried to move it and had to demo it.

Thanks Bert,

I will check out the steel you mentioned. What I'm envisioning are brackets to hold the glass where I want it and allow it to be removed for cleaning. These brackets would be mounted onto the base structure by either welding or some sort of mechanical attachment.

Amy

Amy Schleif-Mohr wrote:Thanks Bert,

I will check out the steel you mentioned. What I'm envisioning are brackets to hold the glass where I want it and allow it to be removed for cleaning. These brackets would be mounted onto the base structure by either welding or some sort of mechanical attachment.

Amy

Amy

Silicone works well to attach glass to steel. I don't know if there are issues concerning silicone and coreten. I have used regular painted steel that is siliconed to the glass and then placed in the coreten. CRL can probably advise you about that.

Amy Schleif-Mohr wrote:Thanks Bert,

I will check out the steel you mentioned. What I'm envisioning are brackets to hold the glass where I want it and allow it to be removed for cleaning. These brackets would be mounted onto the base structure by either welding or some sort of mechanical attachment.

Amy

The steel you're looking for is called Corten, used in outdoor sculpture a lot and on those rusted steel bridges that don't get painted. Another alloy that is used is A588.

Don't use it where rain water will drain off and drip on concrete, it will be stained forever.

Ron

There is a building in downtown Milwaukee (Water Street?) that is Corten. The first floor is recessed to provide shelter so there was an orange drip line on the sidewalk. They may have etched it off the concrete after the steel had aged. Corten is primarily a structural steel and may not be available in smaller shapes.

You didn't mention if it would be a cast piece. I quizzed a few people on that topic a while ago. Basically it is as follows:

No dark colors, or not mixed; the darker colors abosrb more light = heat= expansion = possible checking.

Ideal; Boro , because of the low expansion.

I'll think of more of it later

Greg

Amy Schleif-Mohr wrote:Hi everyone,

I was wondering what kind of possible difficulties I would have for installing a large outdoor sculpture in a garden. I have a possible commission from my neighbor for this and would like to hear some advise before I start designing it. Remember that it will probably need to withstand a Wisconsin winter. It will definately be a componet sculpture with a steel base that will be weather treated and I'm sure some sort of footing in the ground.

Thanks in advance.

Amy

This came up over craftweb recently

The best advice as I saw it was fish tank silicone

Another consideration is problem colours which could give thermal shock problems with sun / ice / water

Thanks everyone.

I am going to be casting some high fire slabs so there will actually be very little color, but I will definately take the color thing into account. I hadn't thought of that. They are about 1" thick or a little more.

I want the actual glass pieces to be romovable so I probably won't silicone them to the steel.

Good to know about the orange staining, the sculpture will be in the middle of many plants so I think I will check out Ron's suggestion. I am not opposed to another material for the base, I just figured that stainless would be too expensive and aluminum wouldn't be strong enough. I will check with my metal supplier.

Thanks again,
Amy

Jerry Barnett wrote:There is a building in downtown Milwaukee (Water Street?) that is Corten. The first floor is recessed to provide shelter so there was an orange drip line on the sidewalk. They may have etched it off the concrete after the steel had aged. Corten is primarily a structural steel and may not be available in smaller shapes.

Hey Jerry,

Does the building you are thinking of look like an upside down step pyramid? I'm trying to think of the building you are talking about and can't remember. I drive down there all the time but haven't paid close enough attention. I'll look next time it's less than 5 min. from my house.

Amy

Amy Schleif-Mohr wrote: Hey Jerry,

Does the building you are thinking of look like an upside down step pyramid? I'm trying to think of the building you are talking about and can't remember. I drive down there all the time but haven't paid close enough attention. I'll look next time it's less than 5 min. from my house.

Amy

Ah, Amy, my memory is held together with duct tape and chewing gum, so it's risky taking it on too long a trip. I think so. A double step back? Southwest corner of a block? Shops at street level? Main entrance at the corner? Not sure that it is on Water; could be a block or two east. The building should be a redish brown by now.

Don't know how big your sculpture will be. Consider how to get anything heavy/bulky to the site. (People say such cruel things when you drive the mobile crane across their petunia bed.) Also, if they move, will they want to take the sculpture with them?

Jerry

Jerry Barnett wrote:

Amy Schleif-Mohr wrote: Hey Jerry,

Does the building you are thinking of look like an upside down step pyramid? I'm trying to think of the building you are talking about and can't remember. I drive down there all the time but haven't paid close enough attention. I'll look next time it's less than 5 min. from my house.

Amy

Ah, Amy, my memory is held together with duct tape and chewing gum, so it's risky taking it on too long a trip. I think so. A double step back? Southwest corner of a block? Shops at street level? Main entrance at the corner? Not sure that it is on Water; could be a block or two east. The building should be a redish brown by now.

Don't know how big your sculpture will be. Consider how to get anything heavy/bulky to the site. (People say such cruel things when you drive the mobile crane across their petunia bed.) Also, if they move, will they want to take the sculpture with them?

Jerry

The US Steel corporate headquarters building in Pittsburgh is made with coreten steel. It was probably the first large building built using it. It rusted more than they thought it would and the rust blew on to the granite court house across the street. US Steel had to pay for the court house to be sandblast cleaned.

My use of coreten is to make welded pyramids for sculpture bases. The pyramid has a pocket built in to the top of it to hold my glass. It welds beautifully and I do like the look of the rusty patina. As I recall, I bought a sheet of it and had it cut up for to a few bases.

Silicone is still a good adhesive for when you want to remove the glass. It can be cut with a piano wire or serated knife. For my sculptures, I made a pocket of painted mild steel in to which the glass is permanently siliconed. That pocket slips in to the base and can be held in place with the pressure from a bolt.

Ah, Amy, my memory is held together with duct tape and chewing gum, so it's risky taking it on too long a trip. I think so. A double step back? Southwest corner of a block? Shops at street level? Main entrance at the corner? Not sure that it is on Water; could be a block or two east. The building should be a redish brown by now.

Don't know how big your sculpture will be. Consider how to get anything heavy/bulky to the site. (People say such cruel things when you drive the mobile crane across their petunia bed.) Also, if they move, will they want to take the sculpture with them?

Jerry[/quote]

Yeah Jerry I think that is the same building.

My neighbor wants proposals for small, medium and large sculptures. The small end would be around 5' long and several feet high depending on the base. I was thinking that it would bolt into a couple of footings that would be poured. He lives in a house that is in the Local Historic District and is very emotionally attached to his house so if he were to move it wouldn't be for some time. But, I would like the base pieces to be held together by bolts so that it could possibly be moved.

Amy

Bert Weiss wrote:

Jerry Barnett wrote:

Amy Schleif-Mohr wrote: Hey Jerry,

Does the building you are thinking of look like an upside down step pyramid? I'm trying to think of the building you are talking about and can't remember. I drive down there all the time but haven't paid close enough attention. I'll look next time it's less than 5 min. from my house.

Amy

Ah, Amy, my memory is held together with duct tape and chewing gum, so it's risky taking it on too long a trip. I think so. A double step back? Southwest corner of a block? Shops at street level? Main entrance at the corner? Not sure that it is on Water; could be a block or two east. The building should be a redish brown by now.

Don't know how big your sculpture will be. Consider how to get anything heavy/bulky to the site. (People say such cruel things when you drive the mobile crane across their petunia bed.) Also, if they move, will they want to take the sculpture with them?

Jerry

The US Steel corporate headquarters building in Pittsburgh is made with coreten steel. It was probably the first large building built using it. It rusted more than they thought it would and the rust blew on to the granite court house across the street. US Steel had to pay for the court house to be sandblast cleaned.

My use of coreten is to make welded pyramids for sculpture bases. The pyramid has a pocket built in to the top of it to hold my glass. It welds beautifully and I do like the look of the rusty patina. As I recall, I bought a sheet of it and had it cut up for to a few bases.

Silicone is still a good adhesive for when you want to remove the glass. It can be cut with a piano wire or serated knife. For my sculptures, I made a pocket of painted mild steel in to which the glass is permanently siliconed. That pocket slips in to the base and can be held in place with the pressure from a bolt.

Good idea Bert. I will keep that in mind when I design the base.

Amy

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn wrote:This came up over craftweb recently

The best advice as I saw it was fish tank silicone

Another consideration is problem colours which could give thermal shock problems with sun / ice / water

fishtank silicone is regular silicone without the algaicides added.

Hey Amy!

One thing I learned from a Paul Marioni and Ann Troutner workshop (they do very large cast glass outdoor installations...usually comprised of many cast sculptural blocks) is that the steel and glass will expand and contract. They use silicone on all the glass blocks in their installations because it gives a little, so that's the way I'd go. I'm with Bert on the idea that you could still remove the slabs if you needed to down the road.

If you opt not to use silicone, maybe don't make the brackets too snug so the glass and steel can expand and contract without cracking the glass slabs.

Just some thoughts....Sounds like a fun project!

Carol

I'm thinking about a piece for my own garden and was wondering if copper would work. I have a bunch of it from some other unfinished project that I must have abandoned when I discoverd glass.....
What would be the risks of using copper?

As far as I know copper would work fine. Keep in mind it will patina just like copper gutters and copper flashing. If you don't want it to patina you will have to clear coat it some how.

Amy

Amy Schleif-Mohr wrote:Hi everyone,

I was wondering what kind of possible difficulties I would have for installing a large outdoor sculpture in a garden. I have a possible commission from my neighbor for this and would like to hear some advise before I start designing it. Remember that it will probably need to withstand a Wisconsin winter. It will definately be a componet sculpture with a steel base that will be weather treated and I'm sure some sort of footing in the ground.

Thanks in advance.

Amy

Amy,

I put this up last year, and it has withstood one Wisconsin winter. The glass panels are held in place with metal tabs that screw into place, with silicone bumpons in between the glass and the metal. It seems to be working well.



More views here:
http://www.clearwaterglass.com/trellis.htm

Steve

Clematis? Steve, you better be ready to do some prunin' cuz I think it would be a crime to cover up that glass with foliage.

Nice trellis too