Tempering Bullseye Glass
Moderators: Brad Walker, Tony Smith
Tempering Bullseye Glass
Can 1/4 in or 1/2 in thick fused bullseye glass be tempered to meet code requirement for architectural installations?
Helen Rudy
www.helenrudyglass.com
www.helenrudyglass.com
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:33 pm
- Location: North Carolina, USA
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
Only if you can find a temperer willing to do the work. Most won't because of fear of breakage during the process.helenrudy wrote:Can 1/4 in or 1/2 in thick fused bullseye glass be tempered to meet code requirement for architectural installations?
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
Have you ever used Flex tec from his glass?
Helen Rudy
www.helenrudyglass.com
www.helenrudyglass.com
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:33 pm
- Location: North Carolina, USA
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
No, but I've heard very good reports about it.helenrudy wrote:Have you ever used Flex tec from his glass?
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
Yes. the videos seem to show it works.
Thanks
Helen
Thanks
Helen
Helen Rudy
www.helenrudyglass.com
www.helenrudyglass.com
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:18 pm
- Location: Calgary, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
Art glass as a general rule cannot be tempered. Even a small bubble will cause the piece to explode after tempering. Even float glass that is tempered all the time cannot be tempered if you are fusing anything substantial to it.
Rick Wilton
-
- Posts: 2339
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:06 am
- Location: Chatham NH
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
Wissmach makes glasses that can be routinely tempered. When Schott made Artista, it was temperable. I believe that internal bubbles can cause problems during tempering. Bullseye glass tends to have internal bubbles.
The best way I know to make art glass in to safety glass is by resin laminating. This is a process best done by somebody who has gone through the learning curve. The result, pre-learning curve, is a nasty puddle of epoxy on the floor. You must use a low contraction resin formula.
The best way I know to make art glass in to safety glass is by resin laminating. This is a process best done by somebody who has gone through the learning curve. The result, pre-learning curve, is a nasty puddle of epoxy on the floor. You must use a low contraction resin formula.
Bert
Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:18 pm
- Location: Calgary, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
yes wissmach does "offer" a temperable art glass.
http://www.wissmachglass.com/pdfs/Tempe ... tGlass.pdf
They give almost ZERO info regarding it ie. can you actually fuse pieces together? or just temper the colored stock sheets.
Even then good luck getting a tempering company to run it through their million dollar machine. The risk reward ratio is too high for them, I've heard of glass melting to the quartz rollers and wrecking them.
http://www.wissmachglass.com/pdfs/Tempe ... tGlass.pdf
They give almost ZERO info regarding it ie. can you actually fuse pieces together? or just temper the colored stock sheets.
Even then good luck getting a tempering company to run it through their million dollar machine. The risk reward ratio is too high for them, I've heard of glass melting to the quartz rollers and wrecking them.
Rick Wilton
-
- Posts: 2339
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:06 am
- Location: Chatham NH
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
Schott used to claim that you could fuse frits or thin sheets to thick sheets, and then temper it. I am skeptical. I have painted on float glass with onglaze colors, and metallic lustres and tempered it, successfully. I'll guess that you can fuse frits on the Wissmach and temper it. You do have to be careful about strong color differences to avoid thermal shock.Rick Wilton wrote:yes wissmach does "offer" a temperable art glass.
http://www.wissmachglass.com/pdfs/Tempe ... tGlass.pdf
They give almost ZERO info regarding it ie. can you actually fuse pieces together? or just temper the colored stock sheets.
Even then good luck getting a tempering company to run it through their million dollar machine. The risk reward ratio is too high for them, I've heard of glass melting to the quartz rollers and wrecking them.
I'm pretty sure that you want to time the glass quite a bit shorter than for float, as the slump temp is about 80º F lower than float glass. I have spoken with Wissmach about their temperable glass. All you need to do is call to get some help.
Bert
Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions
-
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:44 am
- Location: eastern Tennessee
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
turn it into laminated panels and forget the tempering. IMHO laminating is better and safer than tempering anyway,
-
- Posts: 2339
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:06 am
- Location: Chatham NH
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
I don't disagree Tom, unless there are bolts and nuts involved, at which point only tempered works.Tom Fuhrman wrote:turn it into laminated panels and forget the tempering. IMHO laminating is better and safer than tempering anyway,
Bert
Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
OK, Tom and Bert: Glad you two had a nice conversation here but can you expand on your comments i.e. how is laminating done, and what are the nuts and bolts of the nuts and bolts?Bert Weiss wrote:I don't disagree Tom, unless there are bolts and nuts involved, at which point only tempered works.Tom Fuhrman wrote:turn it into laminated panels and forget the tempering. IMHO laminating is better and safer than tempering anyway,
Jerry
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:18 pm
- Location: Calgary, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
the nut and bolts of nuts and bolts is just that
Nuts and bolts.
Literally where you drill a hole through the glass and bolt it to something. A wall, a railing, baillister etc.
As for laminating..... well that is a whole other animal. I have done it and on occasion do it.
I'm not going to give advice on how to do it, as I don't recommend people try it without professional experience first.
There are at least three completely different approaches to it.
Nuts and bolts.
Literally where you drill a hole through the glass and bolt it to something. A wall, a railing, baillister etc.
As for laminating..... well that is a whole other animal. I have done it and on occasion do it.
I'm not going to give advice on how to do it, as I don't recommend people try it without professional experience first.
There are at least three completely different approaches to it.
Rick Wilton
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:33 pm
- Location: North Carolina, USA
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
The basic process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminated_glass Googling laminated glass will give you more basic info. Lots of videos on YouTube also.Jerrwel wrote: i.e. how is laminating done
Do it yourself (on a small scale, just to see the process, not recommended commercially): http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Yo ... ENANIGANS/
Unless you want to go down another learning curve, it's easiest to just hire someone to laminate your glass for you.
-
- Posts: 2339
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:06 am
- Location: Chatham NH
- Contact:
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
The overview of resin laminating is that you create a space between the sheets with spacers or VHB tape. Then you seal the hell out of the perimeter, leaving a space to add resin and one to let air escape as it fills with resin. The resin really wants to leak out, so the seal has to be perfect. You use a tilt table working various angles to get the resin to fill and the air to escape. Like Rick says, this is not a detailed set of directions, but an overview of what is done. This process is one that requires less specialized equipment than the other alternatives, which involve vacuum, pressure, and heat.
I figured out how to do this and my conclusion was to find a professional to do it for me. I have done that. I once created 2 kilncast panels, that were fired one on top of the other (with a nonstick interlayer). I sent them out for laminating. When he was done, they met Florida Hurricane standards for a front door glass panel.
Most resins on the market are not appropriate for laminating art glasses. You must use a special low contraction resin. The company that did mine only uses that formula, because it is less prone to cracking any glass. I know of one company, Bendheim, that knows how to cure UV resin along with art glasses.
As to the nuts and bolts, annealed glass will easily crack when you tighten a nut on a bolt. I have done shows where I didn't bother to temper10mm glass for my bolted together display. (I would most definitely temper anything I sold to a client). Yes, I managed to break the glass while setting it up. After you temper glass, it can withstand the pressure of tightening a bolt through a drilled hole, lined with a vinyl spacer. I have seen buildings where giant expanses of glasses are bolted together, and can handle wind loads.
That said, I have seen really thick annealed glass countertops drilled and bolted in place. In this case you must be really careful not to tighten the bolts too much. It will break relatively easily.
I figured out how to do this and my conclusion was to find a professional to do it for me. I have done that. I once created 2 kilncast panels, that were fired one on top of the other (with a nonstick interlayer). I sent them out for laminating. When he was done, they met Florida Hurricane standards for a front door glass panel.
Most resins on the market are not appropriate for laminating art glasses. You must use a special low contraction resin. The company that did mine only uses that formula, because it is less prone to cracking any glass. I know of one company, Bendheim, that knows how to cure UV resin along with art glasses.
As to the nuts and bolts, annealed glass will easily crack when you tighten a nut on a bolt. I have done shows where I didn't bother to temper10mm glass for my bolted together display. (I would most definitely temper anything I sold to a client). Yes, I managed to break the glass while setting it up. After you temper glass, it can withstand the pressure of tightening a bolt through a drilled hole, lined with a vinyl spacer. I have seen buildings where giant expanses of glasses are bolted together, and can handle wind loads.
That said, I have seen really thick annealed glass countertops drilled and bolted in place. In this case you must be really careful not to tighten the bolts too much. It will break relatively easily.
Bert
Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
Thanks everyone, that was the level of information I was looking for. Just wanted to understand better what you were writing about.Jerrwel wrote: OK, Tom and Bert: Glad you two had a nice conversation here but can you expand on your comments i.e. how is laminating done, and what are the nuts and bolts of the nuts and bolts?
Jerry
Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass
Wow. Thank you all a great discussion. Helen
Helen Rudy
www.helenrudyglass.com
www.helenrudyglass.com