Alternative to Thinfire

[theanimallover]

Hi, I'm returning to this board after nearly 10 years!
I was wondering if there was a safer alternative to thinfire (for health) that has since come along?

[Brad Walker]

No alternatives that I'm aware of. Papyros has been introduced (around 10 yrs ago), but it's a similar product.

The SDS information for both products doesn't indicate that they're hazardous, only that they disintegrate into dust and should not be inhaled. Best to clean with a HEPA filter in your vacuum or with a damp paper towel.

I don't find thinfire particularly hazardous, but if you're really worried I'd switch to kiln wash.

[theanimallover]

I've not had a kiln for 10 years. I used to hoover mine out with a dedicated hoover with a hepa bag (not a hepa filter though - I didn't know about that).
I'm thinking of getting a kiln again, but like before the kiln will live in the house, which is why I worry about the kiln-paper dust and wondered (hoped!) if things might have moved on...

Kiln wash never worked for me, I used a lot of black opal glass and found the kiln wash stuck and ruined the glass - so gave up early on with that. I also vaguely remember experimenting with fibre paper.

[Buttercup]

Hello again, 10 years after, sounds like a band name.( Speaking of names, still can't help speed-reading your name as "the animal all over.")

Alumina hydrate is my favourite over kiln wash. I've only used Thinfire once and it didn't do anything the AH didn't do; Alumina Hydrate, AKA Aluminum Hydroxide.

[theanimallover]

I vaguely remember someone saying that about my name before! Was that you? On this site I wonder all those years ago...
I've not heard of Aluminium Hydroxide as a kiln wash. I've done a quick Google, but will look into it further - I've read so far, it's good for heartburn

[Brad Walker]

Aluminium hydroxide is one of the ingredients in thinfire.

[Kevin Midgley]

Use a standard pottery studio kiln wash as a base.
Add a whole bunch of Alumina hydrate to weaken it.
Mix it up and test it.
Here's the game.
You want the kiln wash to stick to the shelf and the glass if it is an opaline glass and not to cathedrals but in either case, to easily wash off.
It can be done.
Too little stick to the shelf? then add a marble sized ball of clay to your kiln wash bucket,
Too much stick to the shelf? then add more alumina hydrate.
Once you figure it out you will never dream of using shelf papers as they are way more work and far too expensive.
If you don't fire opaline glasses on the shelves you may 'never' need to redo the kiln wash.
I've still got the bucket of kiln wash powder from Bullseye from when I started my current studio 23 years ago. I add a scoop of it to my mix as the colorant helps to see what I have or haven't missed when using it,

And a heads up to you. Insurance companies have become nasty and will not insure homes even with completely separate buildings/sheds with kilns in them. Well that is not totally true, they will offer insurance at 3.5 times whatever rate you previously had. Make sure your installation is totally safe so you can't have an incident and don't tell then as they won't cover you if there is a claim anyway.

[Brad Walker]

And a heads up to you. Insurance companies have become nasty and will not insure homes even with completely separate buildings/sheds with kilns in them. Well that is not totally true, they will offer insurance at 3.5 times whatever rate you previously had. Make sure your installation is totally safe so you can't have an incident and don't tell then as they won't cover you if there is a claim anyway.

This may be true in Canada, but not entirely so in the US. I've found that some companies will insure you as part of a basic policy, some won't. Helps to shop around.

[AndyT]

The thing I like about Papyros is that if you're careful you can get several firings on it. I've gotten up to five. Often it depends on the color of the glass and how hot you go.

[theanimallover]

I'm in the UK, so the insurance will be different again.

Do you mean, use a shop bought kiln wash, then add alumina hydrate?
The shop bought will have silica in it?

[Buttercup]

Hi theanimallover. Yep 'twas I. I 'fess up to that idiotic mistake.

Here's a thread from 2014:

viewtopic.php?p=350851&hilit=alumina+hydroxide#p350851

Good luck.

[theanimallover]

I sounded cantankerous there, wasn't meant to be, just trying to work it out!

Thanks for your help.

[Kevin Midgley]

wear a respirator. You should do going inside any kiln anyway. Do you walk down the street? Do cars stir up dust and you breathe it? No difference.

[Buttercup]

I sounded cantankerous there, wasn't meant to be, just trying to work it out!

Thanks for your help.

I didn't take offense! (Tried to post a smiley face but a string of code published instead)
Glad to help.

[theanimallover]

Here's one for both of us Buttercup
Kevin, but isn't silica different from regular dust?

[Kevin Midgley]

according to an online source, The mass of Earth’s crust is 59 percent silica, the main constituent of more than 95 percent of the known rocks.
Therefore what dust doesn't contain silica?
You do realize you can easily make your own shelf paper substitute but it is more work and still more expensive than using the simpler and better kiln wash I described earlier.

[Buttercup]

Here's one for both of us Buttercup
Kevin, but isn't silica different from regular dust?

Here's one from downunda!

[Brad Walker]

Inhaling silica can cause silicosis. Silica is a known carcinogen. Silica increases the chance of tuberculosis, kidney disease, and more. These are chronic issues, so wear a respirator if you're around silica for any length of time.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i=89978449

Or, if you want an Australian authority: https://www.cancer.org.au/cancer-inform ... ilica-dust

[theanimallover]

Thanks for your input everyone. Kevin, if I make my own wash with Alumina Nitrate can I start from scratch without the 'real' kilnwash base? Or do you recommend only making with regular kiln wash?

Here's one for both of us Buttercup
Kevin, but isn't silica different from regular dust?

Here's one from downunda!

Very good!!

[theanimallover]

Has anyone used Nitride-bonded-silicon-carbide shelves, I think they are called Advancer.
I can't find much about them in the UK, but read on another forum that they don't use kiln wash.