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I am trying out the Sunshine paints and have a few observations that could use some feedback.

Using 1544 I brush painted on clear and on silver CBS unfused. The clear seemed to have good coverage and on the silver it looked burned out. Fired at 1350 for 10 min. Suggestions?

Used baby oil as a medium and it shows the brush strokes more. The current consistency is that of oil paints. I have thinned down with more bo on the pallette to a cream consistency but still get brush stokes any other ideas on a smoother consistency.

When I mix the paint and medium I am putting the paint in a film cannister and then adding the medium and stirring with a knife. Is this the right way?

Susan W

the paint will be smoother if you put it on a piece of glass (sandblasted is best) and mash/mix it with a pallette knife and then thin it. rosanna

Susan Wright wrote:I am trying out the Sunshine paints and have a few observations that could use some feedback.

Using 1544 I brush painted on clear and on silver CBS unfused. The clear seemed to have good coverage and on the silver it looked burned out. Fired at 1350 for 10 min. Suggestions?

Used baby oil as a medium and it shows the brush strokes more. The current consistency is that of oil paints. I have thinned down with more bo on the pallette to a cream consistency but still get brush stokes any other ideas on a smoother consistency.

When I mix the paint and medium I am putting the paint in a film cannister and then adding the medium and stirring with a knife. Is this the right way?

Susan W

Susan

1350 is not hot enough to get a gloss. They are recommended to be fired between 1382 and 1560. I find best results in my kiln around 1480.

Like Rossanna says, I would mix your paint on a pallette of 1/4" float glass. Use a big cake type of pallette knife that is fairly stiff. You can thin the 1544 with water if you like.

Brush strokes are the big deal in glass and china painting. You have to learn to make them just as you like. Sign painting brushes are helpful. "The Art of Painting on Glass" by Elskus has lots of explanations of traditional glass painting techniques for dealing with the brush stroke thing.

Impressionist style paintings work very well.

I once saw an exhibitiuon of Picassso's private collection, including some large china bowls. They were with totally pronounced brush strokes. He pulled it off with little technique, just his natural stroke.

The trick is to find a style that you are comfortable with that utilizes the stroke that you get. Work with your results until it starts to sing to you. Painting on glass is the least forgiving medium because you see every particle that is applied. White or black glass is more forgiving, sort of like paper.

I'll try remixing on the float. My 1544 is separating when I don't use them all so am remixing in the cannister. Is this normal, I don't see the oil doing this.

Was doing at 1480 and then dropped back down to the 1350 will go back up to 1480. Do any colors burn out at repeated fires. I would like to try making layers and blasting to reveal layers. Can I do multiple layers in one firing? How if possible?

Joined a china painting guild to learn more. THey use different paints but assume techniques will be similar.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. Have printed off archives on Ferro as much as I found. Excited about the possibilities.

Susan W

I noticed that the paints are borosilicite frit. Are there any compatability issues with bullseye?

Susan W

Susan Wright wrote:I'll try remixing on the float. My 1544 is separating when I don't use them all so am remixing in the cannister. Is this normal, I don't see the oil doing this.

Was doing at 1480 and then dropped back down to the 1350 will go back up to 1480. Do any colors burn out at repeated fires. I would like to try making layers and blasting to reveal layers. Can I do multiple layers in one firing? How if possible?

Joined a china painting guild to learn more. THey use different paints but assume techniques will be similar.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. Have printed off archives on Ferro as much as I found. Excited about the possibilities.

Susan W

Susan

I'm not sure about multiple firings. you will have to test. You can apply multiple layers a few ways. You have a stroke or 2 on which you can over paint wet or dried enamels. You can overpaint with water over oil over water in consecutively decending radii. In other words oil won't mess up water and vice versa, but they will mess up themselves. You can silk screen multilayers with care. I would get suggestions from the techies at Ferro for this. You can also airbrush.

Compatibility is not an issue as the layer of glass is too thin to matter.

I mix my 1544 and powders using a Braun Handblender in wide mouth pint jars. It does settle out, but I can recon them on the palette or by remixing the jar. Sometimes adding a bit of water helps. I weigh powder and medium and add about twice as much powder as medium by weight.

Don't forget that there is clear flux which you might be able to overspray and do a last firing.

Just curious to know if anyone is mixing their Ferro powders with Klyr Fire as a medium? It seems to have pretty much the same ingredients as the Ferro 683 medium sample they sent me. I also have a pine tar oil based medium which I haven't tried yet. Would that be the oil medium you are speaking about for multiple layers Bert?

Carol

Hi Carol:

I use Klyr Fire with Sunshine enamels when I airbrush. It's a perfect medium and the results are excellent. I also use A-13 when silkscreening with these enamels....I'm not a fan of squeegee oil and the cleanup.

Avery

I have had success airbrushing with Ferro 80 683 (Glycol ether, denatured alcohol & cellulose ether) thinned with alcohol and with gum arabic in water. Both go on even, dry hard and fire glossy.

Are the 683 ingredients the same as Klyrfire?...............Jim

Jim Wolverton wrote:I have had success airbrushing with Ferro 80 683 (Glycol ether, denatured alcohol & cellulose ether) thinned with alcohol and with gum arabic in water. Both go on even, dry hard and fire glossy.

Are the 683 ingredients the same as Klyrfire?...............Jim

I use Klyr Fire for spraying but have been going back just recently to water and gum arabic, because I dislike the way paint becomes after its dry and you try to rewet it, using Klyr Fire. PLus if I want to sticklight a matte, klyr fire isn't as strong a binder as I like it enough without adding a little gum arabic. I've added drops of soap-like additives made by liquitex and/or duncan that make the mixture slipperier, slipprier...slicker, but if I put a lot of paint with that stuff in it in my airbrush, it starts to bubble up.

I need to try the Ferro stuff sometime. I think I'd like it for spraying mattes.

Susan Wright wrote: clip
Joined a china painting guild to learn more. THey use different paints but assume techniques will be similar.

Susan W

The book 'Painting China and Porcelain' by Sheila Southwell is a really good reference. Has several pages on mediums alone. Much more reference info and pure technique than the usual china painting book. She describes a 'pen oil' that she finds superior to the clove oil I use for pen drawing. Pages on lustres and gold...just a good book. Going to try some of that pen oil if I can find it in the USA.

Get out a 8x8 tile is good enough (white), and put your paint on the tile. Put a couple drops of heavy mineral oil (Walgreens or Eckerds) on it, get a pallet kinfe and mix it with the knife down and around mixing the oil into the paint. Go by an art supply store, and pick up a pallet knife and if you have any questions ask someone if they can show you the motion. Basically you are mixing and grinding so to speak, in a downward circular motion, until it is the consistancy of toothpase. Good luck, I have done stained glass for 16 or so years, and I paint on porcelain, but I have just gotten my kiln and am going slow with my fusing and slumping. But painting on my glass is on the horizon. Good luck, and when I need help you will be ready to give me some pointers.
Eljay

db wrote:

Susan Wright wrote: clip
Joined a china painting guild to learn more. THey use different paints but assume techniques will be similar.

Susan W

The book 'Painting China and Porcelain' by Sheila Southwell is a really good reference. Has several pages on mediums alone. Much more reference info and pure technique than the usual china painting book. She describes a 'pen oil' that she finds superior to the clove oil I use for pen drawing. Pages on lustres and gold...just a good book. Going to try some of that pen oil if I can find it in the USA.

Click on "mediums" and then "clairvoyants" for your pen oil.

http://www.anncline.com/

Ron

Carol wrote:Just curious to know if anyone is mixing their Ferro powders with Klyr Fire as a medium? It seems to have pretty much the same ingredients as the Ferro 683 medium sample they sent me. I also have a pine tar oil based medium which I haven't tried yet. Would that be the oil medium you are speaking about for multiple layers Bert?

Carol

Squeegee oil is a pine oil medium. It stinks. For spraying, I thin it with some pure turpentine I have from Engelhard/Hanovia called essence. You can definitely get creative with mediums. Every medium gives a slightly different fired surface.

For the water mixable mediums you can modify them with glycerin to slow drying, alcohol to speed drying, water to thin, flux to add transparency. ethylene glycol to keep from freezing. I think the glycol also acts to change the boiling point so that you can fire the paint wet and not get boiling problems like you would with water and gum arabic.

Can I layer painted BE and fuse without problems? Paint, fuse, stack, fuse? Can I layer painted layer to painted layer? Can I fuse float to float since I have never used float at all? I was thinking of painting some sloat and stack fusing to get depth.

Thanks for all this great info. I have guild meeting today and have printed off this thread so I can ask the right questions.

Thanks again.

Susan W

Susan Wright wrote:Can I layer painted BE and fuse without problems? Paint, fuse, stack, fuse? Can I layer painted layer to painted layer? Can I fuse float to float since I have never used float at all? I was thinking of painting some sloat and stack fusing to get depth.

Thanks for all this great info. I have guild meeting today and have printed off this thread so I can ask the right questions.

Thanks again.

Susan W

Susan

I know of nothing that you can do with 2 layers of glass that does not encounter problems, hence this forum. All of these approaches require refined techniques that you must figure out yourself. All I can tell you is that it is possible to do what you are envisioning. Let us know about your trials, successes and errors.

The one configuration that is usually problematic is enameled side down against kiln wash. The good news is that I have even done this with interesting results. When layering, texture is always relevant. Remember that with Bullseye you can cap with clear or tinted frits.

Since I have never used float I wasn't sure about fusing it. I assume that if I keep all the pieces I use from the same sheet that I won't have to worry about compatability in the fuse. I did a few paint trials on BE clear and just took up to the 1480 and then cut the kiln off not wanting to do anything but set the paint. The BE clear that I have in the thin is not a crystal clear but has bubbles and texture so I was wanting a clearer and cheaper glass to play with. I have several ideas running around in my head and I'm impatient with my learning curve.

So far I am not pleased with the painted effect since the designs that I am blasting have had pretty sharp points and not able to control the paint that thin of a point and didn't like the texture. I'm in the process of redesigning the blasted part so that I have more gentle curves and fewer sharp points.

Thanks for all the help

Susan W